Segway Reticle Leveler

Anyone ever use one to level say an acss raptor reticle?

pidevildog07 said:

Anyone ever use one to level say an acss raptor reticle?

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Those things are junk in my opinion. My dad gave me one and the rubber band broke the first time I tried to use it. I'd go with the wheeler leveling kit.

Wish they made a tool specifically for their reticles because they're not what I would call typical (I.e duplex or mil dot) reticles and is nigh impossible to tell if the reticle is level horizontally plus I don't trust the turret cap or the turret itself to be level in relation to the reticle.

Best way to level reticle is to hang a plumb bob from something, then in your normal shooting position, with your normal hold, adjust the reticle to be in line with the plumb bob.

When shooting, the reticle must be level with the WORLD, not the rifle.

Pinecone said:

Best way to level reticle is to hang a plumb bob from something, then in your normal shooting position, with your normal hold, adjust the reticle to be in line with the plumb bob.

When shooting, the reticle must be level with the WORLD, not the rifle.

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Chad recommended a similar method to me a while back and linked this article.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/02/16/easy-diy-method-for-leveling-a-scope-reticle/

Worked great for me.



Of course how do you know if your workbench or basement floor is level?

ToolAA said:

Chad recommended a similar method to me a while back and linked this article.

Of course how do you know if your workbench or basement floor is level?

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It doesn't matter.

If you try to do this with your rifle sitting on your workbench, you will not have the reticle properly adjusted.

You have to be in your normal shooting position, with your normal hold. That way, the rifle is the way it is when you shoot.

I feel like this has been covered before ad nauseum. The rifle must be leveled to the planet then the scope is leveled to the rifle. The plumb line is a good way to do things but I have had good luck with the wheeler level and verifying with the plumb line. If your rifle axis is not plumb with gravity and then you will have issues at longer distances. If you are leveling your scope for shots inside of 300 yds, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

There are some good videos from Snipershide that dispels the gravity planet orientation thing and goes with the cant that you are comfortable with. If you have an adjustable stock it's not an issue. The chassis on my Tikka is adjustable for LOP, cheek weld and cant.

Getting a bubble level will help you a lot as well. If your rifle is level, your scope and bubble are level and you hold the rifle level you will be in good shape.

Bountied said:

I feel like this has been covered before ad nauseum. The rifle must be leveled to the planet then the scope is leveled to the rifle. The plumb line is a good way to do things but I have had good luck with the wheeler level and verifying with the plumb line. If your rifle axis is not plumb with gravity and then you will have issues at longer distances. If you are leveling your scope for shots inside of 300 yds, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

There are some good videos from Snipershide that dispels the gravity planet orientation thing and goes with the cant that you are comfortable with. If you have an adjustable stock it's not an issue. The chassis on my Tikka is adjustable for LOP, cheek weld and cant.

Getting a bubble level will help you a lot as well. If your rifle is level, your scope and bubble are level and you hold the rifle level you will be in good shape.

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but only if that is the way you are comfortable holding your rifle. My most comfortable shooting position both off hand and off a bench my rifle is canted very, very slightly. I prefer the scope adjusted to be plumb with the way I actually hold the rifle, rather than needing to rely on a bubble level to see that the rifle and scope are held perfectly level. For long range match shooting a bubble level and scope/rifle held perfectly plumb are almost certainly a better way to do it. Hunting though, not the best way to do it IMHO. Plumb to how you hold the rifle is the way to go.

That said, in field conditions hunting it likely doesn't matter. Even with a 300yd shot, the difference between my natural hold and plumb, supposing the scope was setup for plumb to the world and not plumb to my hold is probably going to mess up my POI by just a couple of inches. Its a very small difference.

lazarus said:

but only if that is the way you are comfortable holding your rifle. My most comfortable shooting position both off hand and off a bench my rifle is canted very, very slightly. I prefer the scope adjusted to be plumb with the way I actually hold the rifle, rather than needing to rely on a bubble level to see that the rifle and scope are held perfectly level. For long range match shooting a bubble level and scope/rifle held perfectly plumb are almost certainly a better way to do it. Hunting though, not the best way to do it IMHO. Plumb to how you hold the rifle is the way to go.

That said, in field conditions hunting it likely doesn't matter. Even with a 300yd shot, the difference between my natural hold and plumb, supposing the scope was setup for plumb to the world and not plumb to my hold is probably going to mess up my POI by just a couple of inches. Its a very small difference.

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As long as it holds minute of deer at 300yds it'll be fine.

Bountied said:

There are some good videos from Snipershide that dispels the gravity planet orientation thing and goes with the cant that you are comfortable with.

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Links to these videos?

I would like to know as well because that's what the plumb bob method was all about. You're not fighting gravity dude.

Pinecone said:

Links to these videos?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCoHG23TQcY

pidevildog07 said:

I would like to know as well because that's what the plumb bob method was all about. You're not fighting gravity dude.

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You're always fighting gravity. It's a constant...dude. Well unless you're in a vacuum in space then it's a different story.

Bountied said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCoHG23TQcY

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That is a VERY confusing video. I am not quite sure what they are trying to day.

He keeps saying the one scope was aligned to the fall of gravity, then the other one was canted and aligned to the fall of gravity.

And, on the one where the scope it leveled to the rifle, they shot the rifle level.

If they are saying it is OK to cant the rifle if you level the scope to the world, then that is what I have been saying for several years on this and other forums.

Most of the people commenting don't get it.

But what they should have tested, was with the scope leveled to the rifle, but then shot canted for a natural hold.

If the scope is offset for the bore (either due to cant or offset mount like M1D or on a Win 94), then you can get some amount of offset and crossover.

If the center of the scope is 1" off the bore (which is a lot), then if you zero at 100 yards, then shoot at 200 yards (with no wind), then yes, you group will be 1" off the aim point. And at 1000 yards, it will be 9" off). BUT, if you zero at 100 yards, so the group is 1" offset to the side the scope it on, it will be 1" offset at 1000 yards.

Pinecone we have went at this discussion before in an earlier thread some time ago. Afterwards I have considered your points which were very good. I haven't went back and re-read the post but can only recall a comment I made about the position of the rifle.
It was something like even if the rifle was fired from upside down the forces of gravity are going to be the same. I seem to remember you may have been a proponent of leveling a scope for its cant and shooter body mechanics/position. I'm not arguing that any longer but prefer to continue to level scopes for my gear with a machined surface of the rifle. I also know that many telescopic sights are mounted with a certain degree of shift regarding the graticules or reticules for being level.
I am with you 100% on you with this video, I couldn't figure out what point they were trying to make. I though for a moment the guy was going into the difference in groups with collimation or parallax or even inconsistencies in the construction of the equipment. I don't know if he was trying to make for time constraints or not leave out talking points or what, but I never made a you tube video so I shouldn't judge.
Any how, with the side mounted scopes I have had on a few rifles I always account for the amount of crossover at varying distances which is important especially when hunting. Reading this made me think about roll over scope mounts that were common for sporterized rifles some years ago. You could roll the scope to the left and make hits exactly the distance of the radius as it rotated away from the receiver. Regardless, rotating a scope in its mounts to some degree can improve group size if the mechanics of the scope are making it difficult. You can rotate them to some extent to improve groups before adjusting the turrets in some cases.

I generally level reticles or graticles using one or more methods described in previous posts, sometimes loosening mounts and rotating the optics to get them to my preference generally with no ill effect on target and then just tighten them down when I'm satisfied. One benefit that comes to mind is that you can see an obvious defect regarding alignment that is not square which can be a heads up before a trip to the range or into the field especially if you have to travel long distance and you can quickly see that before leaving.
Sometimes I move or grasp my rifle by the scope tube/mounts which ensures good continuity for the mounting. Moving around in a stand, after standing up from prone, getting in or out of a boat or even putting the rifle in a case. Moving, not abusing. If the system cannot stand up to that sort of handling it comes off and something else replaces it. I can however, identify a problem right away and be prepared for it to some extent.

I think what point he was making was, rifle cant is fine, as long as the rectile is oriented to the world.

But he should have shown what happens when you cant a rifle with the scope leveled to the rifle.

Bottom line is, the reticle must be oriented to world when you fire.

It does seem strange to me that many people are proponents of natural point of aim, but then insist on twisting the rifle to make the scope orient the world.

I was just fortunate enough to have this very topic posed to a young man through another for a very short time who works with rifles everyday at his job. Just a little while ago actually, the topic came up after picking up some ammo for recreation time and finishing off some crabs. Then of course it turned to guns and hunting switching scopes and all that crap.
He told me purposely canting your scope is dumb as shit in his line of work. But actually, there was a similar lesson today elsewhere in the real world that someone had to learn and it was hard. Then the convo was over when it turned to p&^sy.
Ill keep my shit buttoned up straight and tight like I always have. Good luck to all in your endeavors,keep having fun!