Staked Gas Key - AR-15 BCG

Fire-4-Effect · Jan 10, 2012

I hear a lot of talk about a "properly staked gas key". I have done a lot of reading and their appears to be two trains of thought on this.

1. You MUST have a properly staked gas key or the world will end and life will cease to exist.
2. It matters very little as long as the BCG was put together properly, torqued to specs and their is no gas leakage.

I tend to believe #2 more than number one. While doing research I learned that the whole reason why gas keys were staked to begin with was because Colt discovered that they were coming loose in the field as the ones in the factory were not torqued properly. They told the military they simply needed to be re-torqued to the proper specs. However, the military had already started to "stake" them as a fix and believed it was better insurance to do both, properly stake and torque. The problem is once they are "properly staked" you will not be able to R&R the the BCG. Colt told the military there was no need to stake but they insisted it be done moving forward to all BCG's at the factory and that is how we now have staked gas keys.

I think it is interesting that some vendors make a pathetic attempt to stake the gas key when really it seems to be more for "show" than anythiong as some BCG's I have seen the staking is not even deep enough to impact the bolts. Is it just for looks then?

So, I am curious if anyone has actually seen a gas key come loose before? I have never seen it at the range nor do I believe it is as big a problem as people would have you believe.

Thoughts?

Phil

rpker · Jan 10, 2012

never seen mine come loose because they are staked...just sayin

Forest · Jan 10, 2012

Yep - properly staked gas keys don't come loose when it's most inconvienent.

But I will say having a staked key is not guarantee of success. I've had a key screw break just under the head. So the head was staked in place but the screw effectively was not working. (so at least the stake kept the screw head in place and not bouncing around in the upper).

Stake the Gas Key Screws.

ETA: You mention it matters little if the BCG was put together properly. Well to put one together properly you NEED to stake the gas key screws. I invite your attention to pages 3-17 and 3-28 of the -23&P.

Forest · Jan 10, 2012

Fire-4-Effect said:
ISo, I am curious if anyone has actually seen a gas key come loose before?

Yes more than once. And always from BCs that were not staked (at the time that included DPMS, Bushmaster, and most home-builts).

Fire-4-Effect · Jan 10, 2012

Forest,

Very good data. I know the military stuff now says "Stake" based upon what I had said above. I am going to invest in one of these tools:

MOACKS II: http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php

Here is a pic of a properly staked key...

Fire-4-Effect · Jan 10, 2012

Forest;1443051I said:
invite your attention to pages 3-17 and 3-28 of the -23&P.

Yes, this came out of the story I told above. The military believed it was the proper fix. Colt did not but did what the military asked.

Phil

Forest · Jan 10, 2012

Fire-4-Effect said:
Yes, this came out of the story I told above. The military believed it was the proper fix. Colt did not but did what the military asked.

Phil

Staking works, and all you need a punch to do it (no torque wrench required).

Colt says it's not needed, but the guy at Colt saying that wasn't out in the field where rifles going down is a life or death matter. The worlds largest user says to stake the key for reliability- I'm going to stake the key.

Yeah so the key will need replacement, big deal it's a $15 part with the new screws that are also required. Other than the one gas screw breaking I've never had a need to replace the key (yet).

I also pointed out a personal story where if my screw had not been staked I would have had the head of the screw bouncing around in my upper. That certainly isn't good for reliability.

Fire-4-Effect · Jan 10, 2012

Forest,

Great feedback! I am going to make sure my keys are staked properly!

Thanks

Phil

EngageSmith · Jan 10, 2012

We use the MOACKS-II tool here, and it's very well made and does the job. It's rare that I see a gas key not properly staked these days, but it's a simple and cheap fix. What's the saying, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

Russ D · Jan 10, 2012

rpker said:
never seen mine come loose because they are staked...just sayin

BradMacc82 · Jan 10, 2012

Never had one pop on either of my bcg's.

Maybe because they're torqued properly, maybe because they're staked. If it works, don't fix what ain't broken.

motox79 · Jan 10, 2012

I had a gas key loosen up on me once.....not the end of the world, though i did catch it before i caused any damage. Its like anything else....if you ignore it....there is a potential for a problem. Mine caused the rifle to not cycle properly or reliably.....no big deal...a little red loctite and i was good to go. I coul imagine it causing damage....but more likely would fail to cycle before you have a dangerous situation. Just my 2 cents

soup101 · Jan 10, 2012

motox79 said:
I had a gas key loosen up on me once.....not the end of the world, though i did catch it before i caused any damage. Its like anything else....if you ignore it....there is a potential for a problem. Mine caused the rifle to not cycle properly or reliably.....no big deal...a little red loctite and i was good to go. I coul imagine it causing damage....but more likely would fail to cycle before you have a dangerous situation. Just my 2 cents

You might want to re-think this. Heat is used to break screws/bolts that have used red locktite. Guess what the hot gases create when they go into the gas key? Yep you guessed it... heat.

Properly staked is the way to go :thumbsup:

INMY01TA · Jan 10, 2012

Gas keys came loose on my Del-ton my first time out with it. By the second mag I was getting failures. Didn't know why at the time but realized when I got it home they had come loose. I had Chad re-stake them, never a failure again since.

Markp · Jan 10, 2012

Fire-4-Effect said:
So, I am curious if anyone has actually seen a gas key come loose before? I have never seen it at the range nor do I believe it is as big a problem as people would have you believe.

Thoughts?

Phil

Yes, during competition. DPMS

Boom Boom · Jan 10, 2012

See this thread. The pictures make it worth a look.
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/AR-carrier-key-staking-p-t19144.html

jonnyl · Jan 10, 2012

My BCG came from Young Mfg with a long letter about why they don't stake, and that staking isn't necessary and will void their warranty.

I'd been thinking to stake it anyway based on what I'd read here, but I've put it off because I don't want to mar that beautiful chrome!!

Maybe I'll raise that on the priority list!

jimbobborg · Jan 10, 2012

jonnyl said:
My BCG came from Young Mfg with a long letter about why they don't stake, and that staking isn't necessary and will void their warranty.

I'd been thinking to stake it anyway based on what I'd read here, but I've put it off because I don't want to mar that beautiful chrome!!

Maybe I'll raise that on the priority list!

I had one of their BCGs in my SPR. After 600 rounds, nothing loose. I ended up breaking it with an out of battery firing :innocent0

but the key was still on properly.

Boom Boom · Jan 10, 2012

jonnyl said:
My BCG came from Young Mfg with a long letter about why they don't stake, and that staking isn't necessary and will void their warranty.

I'd been thinking to stake it anyway based on what I'd read here, but I've put it off because I don't want to mar that beautiful chrome!!

Maybe I'll raise that on the priority list!

In many different ways, you can mark lines across the screw heads to monitor for movement. No risk of chrome damage that way.

Fire-4-Effect · Jan 10, 2012

jonnyl said:
My BCG came from Young Mfg with a long letter about why they don't stake, and that staking isn't necessary and will void their warranty.

I'd been thinking to stake it anyway based on what I'd read here, but I've put it off because I don't want to mar that beautiful chrome!!

Maybe I'll raise that on the priority list!

What did the letter say? I am very curious...

Phil

Staked Gas Key - AR-15 BCG

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Active Member

Ultimate Member

The AR guy

The AR guy

Active Member

Attachments

Active Member

The AR guy

Active Member

,

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Active Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Ultimate Member

Oddball caliber fan

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics