Staked Gas Key - AR-15 BCG
- Thread starter Fire-4-Effect
- Start date
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Fire-4-Effect
Active Member
From Young manufacturing...
Staking the gas key on the AR-15 and M-16 carrier.
There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not “SEAL” the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key. First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws.
Good Shooting!
Daniel H Young
President
Staking the gas key on the AR-15 and M-16 carrier.
There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not “SEAL” the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key. First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws.
Good Shooting!
Daniel H Young
President
Fire-4-Effect
Active Member
His arguments sound valid. proper assembly and torque may eliminate the need to stake the key, especially if the staking job itself could cause damage to the screws.
Other thoughts?
Phil
Other thoughts?
Phil
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
Interesting... From the Crane Armorers.... Here, let me stake that key "properly".
Who's right, the Armorers in the Crane van or the Milspec documents?
Fire-4-Effect
Active Member
After thinking through it I believe the best recipe is to follow Mr. Young's advice above but then to also stake the key with a tool that is designed to minimize possible damage (Not a punch or chisel). The MOACKS tool is perfect for this.
Seems the best of both worlds.
Phil
Seems the best of both worlds.
Phil
Forest
The AR guy
- Jul 13, 2011
- 985
Over 40 use of US Army use says otherwise.
But hey a non govt contractor who dribbles out a few carriers a year to sportsmen says differently, who am I to argue?
ETA: For those following along at home; if you look at page 3-27 of your -23&P you'll note ZERO mention of Permatex and a torque rating 35-40 inch pounds. Oh and they suggest staking at the Depot level using a solid center punch and a hammer (page 3-28) (granted this was written prior to Ned's excellent staking tool). After reassembly it is suggested 3-8 rounds be fired to ensure a seal is created.
Last edited:
Eddie Van
Dude
A few facts/items of interest:
Staking of fasteners is a secondary method of ensuring the fastener does not lose pre-load in various environments (vibratory, thermal, etc). The primary means of ensuring fastener pre-load is torque.
Staking can be mechanical (e.g.cold-working, like many gas keys) or chemical/bonded (e.g. permatex)
#10 bolts are normally torqued 40-55 inch pounds (per ASTM)
Both the Army spec and Young Mfg are adhering to engineering best practices. The data from test or real-life will bear out the "better" method.
I am willing to speculate that the Army has more data to back it's methods
Staking of fasteners is a secondary method of ensuring the fastener does not lose pre-load in various environments (vibratory, thermal, etc). The primary means of ensuring fastener pre-load is torque.
Staking can be mechanical (e.g.cold-working, like many gas keys) or chemical/bonded (e.g. permatex)
#10 bolts are normally torqued 40-55 inch pounds (per ASTM)
Both the Army spec and Young Mfg are adhering to engineering best practices. The data from test or real-life will bear out the "better" method.
I am willing to speculate that the Army has more data to back it's methods
clandestine
AR-15 Savant
I have seen too many unstaked Gas Key Bolts come lose. Were they torqued correctly? Who knows.
Usually the fudds argue on the proper way to setup AR's since they shoot them once a year to sight them in. They dont even warm up so I gues if you put 200 rounds through a gun in a lifetime its not important. LOL
Does a Gas Key Need Loctite? Probably not but I use it anyway.
I loctite my Gas Key Bolts, I torque them to spec, and then I stake them. I have never had one come back to me.
Usually the fudds argue on the proper way to setup AR's since they shoot them once a year to sight them in. They dont even warm up so I gues if you put 200 rounds through a gun in a lifetime its not important. LOL
Does a Gas Key Need Loctite? Probably not but I use it anyway.
I loctite my Gas Key Bolts, I torque them to spec, and then I stake them. I have never had one come back to me.
"Why should I get a Colt when my DPMS Oracle will do the same thing?"
As you said, most people never run their guns hard enough to figure out what's wrong with them. If you run your ARs enough you'll encounter malfunctions but they should be ammo/mag related. I got my BCM M16 BCG that was properly staked, but even still I used the MOACKS-II to stake the edge of the screws from the top as well. Ran 600 rounds through it the first day I took her out, 200 rounds suppressed and had zero issues. 2 failures to feed the first round out of the mag, and 2 failures to lock back after the last round, on 2 old (and well used) Colt M16 mags with the GI follower. Installed new Brownells springs and MAGPUL followers, then the second tmie I shot it I ran 250 more through it, probably 100 suppressed, no failures. I have not cleaned it, only run Slip 2000 lube.
I can't afford more ammo for now but I plan on running this thing past the 2k round mark before cleaning it and see how it shakes out. So far she runs like a top. I know I don't have a TON of experience in the field, but I've seen plenty of AR-15s that were thrown together from parts bought at gun shows that have problem. Buy quality kit, and install it properly and you should be good to go.
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