Trump: VA Proves Dems Take Guns

RoadDawg · Jan 18, 2020

welder516 said:
That post was showing the ability of the President saying "NO Way" and then changing his mind down the road .

But... it did not show that.

It shows that the POTUS can differentiate between the abuses and the legitimate purpose for the law. Shipping in cheap labor = abuse. Encouraging skilled immigration to help build America = legitimate use.

There most certainly IS a difference.

welder516 · Jan 18, 2020

It says "NO EXCEPTIONS" but I am not going down this rabbit hole , I will never be able to win a opinion based argument . Unless I agree with everyone else that has a different opinion , I was merely stating a opinion based on what T-45 has said and done .

Ohh BTW I may not have said it but I like our President and would vote for him for the next 10 years , he is good at this . IMHO President Trump is the best President in my 60 years .

MykR0k · Jan 18, 2020

welder516 said:
That post was showing the ability of the President saying "NO Way" and then changing his mind down the road .

Actually, it's not that at all. H-1B abuse and trying to get the best talent from around to world to come to American and stay are different matters all together.

I'm not being naive, I just know the program extremely well and the issues with each facet. Trump is addressing different issues with those two statements, he didn't change his mind.

But we digress ...

Steve_Zissou · Jan 18, 2020

MykR0k said:
Not trying to throw fuel on the fire but those are two separate issues. Trumps first statement is about H-1B abuses. His second statement is about keeping talented people from around the world here in America! Very different issues.

You can spin it all you want, but it's a pretty massive flip flop on immigration, the single biggest issue that got him elected in the first place. If he can kowtow to the chamber of commerce and Adelson, Mercer, Friess, Uhlein, Koch, etc on immigration, then what's to say that he won't kowtow to someone like Bloomberg on the 2nd if the price is right?

It still beats the crap out of having a Democrat in the White House, but people need to stop acting like Trump is Charlton Heston reincarnated.

inkd · Jan 18, 2020

Occam said:
What I remember is WHY he did that through an administrative action instead of allowing it to turn into what would have - right in the wake of mass killings -been a legislative nightmare far worse for us. Read up on what the congresscreatures were saying behind the scenes at that moment. The left had far uglier things teed up to push through congress, and it would have passed because of the press around Vegas and Florida. He headed a much bigger trainwreck off at the pass, and did so with an easily challenged and trivially reversed approach. He had real world politics to fight with there, made the least of it possible.

I see it as low hanging fruit. He took the odds that most gun owners would willingly accept the banning of an accessory, especially if the NRA supported it. And, he was correct.

Welder is correct. He is no friend of the 2A. No way will he go any further than 1 term if he messes with gun owners any more. If he wins a second term and he can get a deal he wants and gun control is the only thing holding it back, I believe he would absolutely go for it.

Overall, I have been very happy with his performance. But, I'm not fooled into thinking he has our back, either.

Michael S · Jan 18, 2020

President Trump is a NY business man. Tuff, arrogant and yes willing to negotiate. I don't know if he has our best interest at hart or if he even agrees with being totally pro second amendment. He does seem to lean that way at least. So love him or hate him there is no better option for us at this time. We know what will happen thanks to Virginia if we don't. You do not have to like a person to vote for them if you happen to see most things the same way.

Occam · Jan 18, 2020

inkd said:
I see it as low hanging fruit. He took the odds that most gun owners would willingly accept the banning of an accessory, especially if the NRA supported it.

He took the odds that despite holding their noses, gun owners would realize that the ONLY ALTERNATIVE was a far worse about-to-boil-over legislative attack that would have included far more than just bump stocks. His gamble was correct: heading that off at the pass and AVOIDING NEW LAW was by far the least damaging route (for us) that things could have taken. There was no viable path, here in the real world, where - following two ultra high profile mass killings, including dozens killed by a jackass with bump stocks - that would have left bumpstocks untouched. Real world, least toxic choice taken.

buellsfurn · Jan 18, 2020

inkd said:
I see it as low hanging fruit. He took the odds that most gun owners would willingly accept the banning of an accessory, especially if the NRA supported it. And, he was correct.

Welder is correct. He is no friend of the 2A. No way will he go any further than 1 term if he messes with gun owners any more. If he wins a second term and he can get a deal he wants and gun control is the only thing holding it back, I believe he would absolutely go for it.

Overall, I have been very happy with his performance. But, I'm not fooled into thinking he has our back, either.

Deep down this is a concern its already been reported a few months back that he and Lindsey Graham had been negotiating a federal Red Flag law that will pay States to hop aboard on . keep faith

welder516 · Jan 18, 2020

buellsfurn said:
Deep down this is a concern its already been reported a few months back that he and Lindsey Graham had been negotiating a federal Red Flag law that will pay States to hop aboard on . keep faith

The Red Flag issue that was brought up a few post back is a huge deal , we lose all ability to due process .

That damn law has killed one Marylander so far and claimed many other victims .
Yes he jumped on that like a dog in heat .

Doctor_M · Jan 18, 2020

To be honest, I'm not sure that there has been a TRUE 2A advocate in the White House in my lifetime. There have been those somewhat predisposed to our side of the debate (and I would put DJT in that camp), but none that I would consider a lights-out patriot on the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have someone with tepid, albeit un-principled support for our rights, then someone willing to actively destroy them. In reality, it might not be possible for someone who is a rapid defender of our firearms rights to be elected in this divided country. Sad, but that's my opinion on the issue.

welder516 · Jan 18, 2020

Doctor_M said:
To be honest, I'm not sure that there has been a TRUE 2A advocate in the White House in my lifetime. There have been those somewhat predisposed to our side of the debate (and I would put DJT in that camp), but none that I would consider a lights-out patriot on the issue. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have someone with tepid, albeit un-principled support for our rights, then someone willing to actively destroy them. In reality, it might not be possible for someone who is a rapid defender of our firearms rights to be elected in this divided country. Sad, but that's my opinion on the issue.

Very well said Doc M , a lot better then I said it .

buellsfurn · Jan 18, 2020

welder516 said:
The Red Flag issue that was brought up a few post back is a huge deal , we lose all ability to due process .

That damn law has killed one Marylander so far and claimed many other victims .
Yes he jumped on that like a dog in heat .

Didn't see that sorry lap top down and at the geeks squad this phone is unbearable

welder516 · Jan 18, 2020

buellsfurn said:
Didn't see that sorry lap top down and at the geeks squad this phone is unbearable

No reason to say your sorry , you made a great point :thumbsup:

RoadDawg · Jan 18, 2020

welder516 said:
It says "NO EXCEPTIONS" but I am not going down this rabbit hole , I will never be able to win a opinion based argument . Unless I agree with everyone else that has a different opinion , I was merely stating a opinion based on what T-45 has said and done .

Ohh BTW I may not have said it but I like our President and would vote for him for the next 10 years , he is good at this . IMHO President Trump is the best President in my 60 years .

Well... if it is going to be looked at as an argument rather than a civil exchange of views and perspectives... then I don't want to engage in it anyway. No "rabbit hole" here.

Opinions are welcomed. The differences may make one think about their own and consider things they may have missed.

Arguments are usually started by someone saying "You're WRONG" or other comments meant to attempt to gain some manner of advantage and put the other party on the defensive.

But... alas... this is the internet and as such... much of the exchange is completely missed because the printed word is no more than a very small part of the totality of any good conversation.

welder516 · Jan 18, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Well... if it is going to be looked at as an argument rather than a civil exchange of views and perspectives... then I don't want to engage in it anyway.

Opinions are welcomed. The differences may make one think about their own and consider things they may have missed.

Arguments are usually started by someone saying "You're WRONG" or other comments meant to attempt to gain some manner of advantage and put the other party on the defensive.

But... alas... this is the internet and as such... much of the exchange is completely missed because the printed word is no more than a very small part of the totality of any good conversation.

RD ,
I am glad you understand

inkd · Jan 18, 2020

Occam said:
He took the odds that despite holding their noses, gun owners would realize that the ONLY ALTERNATIVE was a far worse about-to-boil-over legislative attack that would have included far more than just bump stocks. His gamble was correct: heading that off at the pass and AVOIDING NEW LAW was by far the least damaging route (for us) that things could have taken. There was no viable path, here in the real world, where - following two ultra high profile mass killings, including dozens killed by a jackass with bump stocks - that would have left bumpstocks untouched. Real world, least toxic choice taken.

We have no idea what the other alternative would have been.

It's easy to say " the alternative would be much worse" when we have no idea what it would have been?

He could have just as easily said " I'm not going to punish law abiding citizens for the actions of a criminal" and that would have gone a long way in solidifying him as someone who has our back.

Most gun owners held their nose and agreed with his decision. Not all.

RoadDawg · Jan 18, 2020

inkd said:
We have no idea what the other alternative would have been.

It's easy to say " the alternative would be much worse" when we have no idea what it would have been?

He could have just as easily said " I'm not going to punish law abiding citizens for the actions of a criminal" and that would have gone a long way in solidifying him as someone who has our back.

Most gun owners held their nose and agreed with his decision. Not all.

Well... since we don't know what the outcome would have been.

All we are left with is to consider how bad it may have been and be thankful that it did not go that way. The ATF ruling is being challenged and reviewed at the SCOTUS level. A new law that could have been the result of that emotional tsunami... would likely never even be close to that level for many years to come... if ever.

The glass is half full and there is more in the bottle. Lets' see if the bar tender can/will pour for us. And be thankful that it was not all poured down the drain in a fit of emotion by the House.

inkd · Jan 18, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Well... since we don't know what the outcome would have been.

All we are left with is to consider how bad it may have been and be thankful that it did not go that way. The ATF ruling is being challenged and reviewed at the SCOTUS level. A new law that could have been the result of that emotional tsunami... would likely never even be close to that level for many years to come... if ever.

The glass is half full and there is more in the bottle. Lets' see if the bar tender can/will pour for us. And be thankful that it was not all poured down the drain in a fit of emotion by the House.

Depending on the Supreme Court doesn't exactly thrill me.

I know some people are googly eyed over Trumps picks. I'll celebrate when there is a cause for celebration.

stic2it · Jan 18, 2020

MLK weekend

Is this a gun rally or bigot rally? Confused

RoadDawg · Jan 18, 2020

inkd said:
Depending on the Supreme Court doesn't exactly thrill me.

I know some people are googly eyed over Trumps picks. I'll celebrate when there is a cause for celebration.

"Googly eyed"? That is a cute sentiment and maybe some are... I am not at that point. Not until they have proven their worth.

I am however VERY certain that the other candidate he beat in 2016 would by now have loaded the SCOTUS so badly that we would be likely praying for the leadership of Vladimir Putin.

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