ATF draft rule published to close "Trust Loophole"

CanDoEZ · Aug 21, 2013

BLUF - NFA trust principles will be required to submit prints and photos.

Can't insert link from phone but The Hill just published an new article about this. Draft rule is up on reg gov website as well.

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Scratch · Aug 21, 2013

Here ya go:

http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/pending-regs/318133-white-house-reviewing-draft-gun-control-rule

http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201210&RIN=1140-AA43

CanDoEZ · Aug 21, 2013

So what is the consensus of the hive on this? Paging Rusty....

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BradMacc82 · Aug 21, 2013

Hmm.

Well that sounds like it's going to suck.

IlikeNFA · Aug 21, 2013

A bunch of horseshit that we all knew was going to happen...eventually. More rules, more restrictions.

CanDoEZ · Aug 21, 2013

I think this falls into the "we have to something since evil congress won't" category.

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CanDoEZ · Aug 21, 2013

Even though its effect on crime will be a null set

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Flipz · Aug 21, 2013

Its not all about Trusts. Looks like theyre removing CLEO signoff for Individuals. They made mention of this a while back. For those filing as an Individual, there would be no CLEO signoff but the applicant would need to inform the CLEO of the NFA purchase.

"(3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO."

Mike OTDP · Aug 21, 2013

Sounds like a reasonable trade to me.

Lex Armarum · Aug 21, 2013

I'll have to read the rule through in detail. From my brief perusal, it appears to be a good faith attempt to address a problem of their own making, namely that the ATF cannot seem to competently process trusts without placing additional burden on trustees.

Gummy · Aug 22, 2013

I wonder if what you have on a trust already will be grandfathered in. I have a trust with five NFA items on it and I wasn't planning on anymore.

Chevyman85 · Aug 22, 2013

Well shit! I wonder how this will affect everyone including myself that have recently sent in forms through a trust? I imagine this change could happen before our forms are approved next spring making them incomplete at that point. Will this be retroactive or for new forms after the change is implemented.

Inigoes · Aug 22, 2013

Gummy said:
I wonder if what you have on a trust already will be grandfathered in. I have a trust with five NFA items on it and I wasn't planning on anymore.

They have to.

When we received our NFA tax stamps, we were obeying the law at the time.

When getting a new NFA item, we will have to play by the rules that are in place at that time.

pitpawten · Aug 22, 2013

*sigh*

Have been waiting until after Oct 1 to get into NFA stuff due to $ constraints, and now this.

Things are unraveling fast now boy

squirrels · Aug 22, 2013

This is a good thing.

The biggest hassle with NFA paperwork wasn't the photos and prints, it was the fact that you had to send it to two agencies (CLEO and BATFE) for sign-off. The main reason for most NFA trusts was to bypass CLEO sign-off.

Now you go straight to BATFE...one-stop.

Everyone thought they were clever with the NFA trust system. No one thinks of the potential downsides...particularly the possibility that the SC or some other court could rule that trusts don't enjoy the same rights (i.e. 2A) as individual citizens, if someone wanted to press the issue.

I am surprised that so many people just wanted to pretend that this wasn't coming.

Arcamm · Aug 22, 2013

So is it worth doing a trust now?

Mike OTDP · Aug 22, 2013

In my opinion, no.

kohburn · Aug 22, 2013

Flipz said:
Its not all about Trusts. Looks like theyre removing CLEO signoff for Individuals. They made mention of this a while back. For those filing as an Individual, there would be no CLEO signoff but the applicant would need to inform the CLEO of the NFA purchase.

"(3) require that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the maker or transferee is located; and (4) eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO."

sounds like an improvement to me

so it is just a draft? or when does it take effect?

2AHokie · Aug 22, 2013

squirrels said:
This is a good thing.

The biggest hassle with NFA paperwork wasn't the photos and prints, it was the fact that you had to send it to two agencies (CLEO and BATFE) for sign-off. The main reason for most NFA trusts was to bypass CLEO sign-off.

Now you go straight to BATFE...one-stop.

Everyone thought they were clever with the NFA trust system. No one thinks of the potential downsides...particularly the possibility that the SC or some other court could rule that trusts don't enjoy the same rights (i.e. 2A) as individual citizens, if someone wanted to press the issue.

I am surprised that so many people just wanted to pretend that this wasn't coming.

This isn't fully directed at you, but...

I disagree that having to submit photos and fingerprints for inclusion in some massive government database to exercise a fundamental human right can ever be considered a good thing.

Looks like I missed the boat on getting into NFA items.

*Cue the "if you don't have something to hide..." responses*

teratos · Aug 22, 2013

2AHokie said:
This isn't fully directed at you, but...

I disagree that having to submit photos and fingerprints for inclusion in some massive government database to exercise a fundamental human right can ever be considered a good thing.

Looks like I missed the boat on getting into NFA items.

*Cue the "if you don't have something to hide..." responses*

They can argue that you can still (in free States) buy firearms without all of the hubub of photos/prints. A SBR or AOW is not necessary for the exercise of that right. Of course, if you look at Miller, they looked at military firearms in use at the time. In this era, that would be the M4, which is both FA and a SBR.......

ATF draft rule published to close "Trust Loophole"

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