Room for a New Shop/Smith/ Indoor Range

RosadoSM · Jun 13, 2012

Yes please.

AC MkIII · Jun 14, 2012

WeaponsCollector said:
I live in Calvert county and have to drive at least 45 minutes to go shooting so I don't shoot as much as I'd like to. If a range opened in Calvert county I would be very happy.
I think there is(or was) a couple small gun shops in the county, but they really aren't anything special.
One's off 231 next to a gas station but it's rarely open and the one time I went the owner acted like he didn't want any customers and the other is on Rt. 2 close to the Rt. 4 intersection which I think is geared more towards fishing and hunting than anything else.

I'm in the same boat. I don't like going to MSAR because of how crowded it is. MYRTLE Grove unless I am off work during the weekend isbefore hit or miss on getting a lane without a long wait. I became a member of BR&GC in Bowie but because of the distance and work schedule can't get there as much as I would like. One of the reasons I just bought a bow. Target in the yard, bow in the deck after work. Tony happy.

inkd · Jun 14, 2012

Good luck, I hope you can get it up and running!!!!

lx1x · Jun 14, 2012

inkd said:
Good luck, I hope you can get it up and running!!!!

Thats what she said. Lol

inkd · Jun 15, 2012

lx1x said:
Thats what she said. Lol

ddn3f · Jun 15, 2012

A new facility in SOMD would be great. MSAR is the closest range and it is really busy.

jdramsey · Jun 15, 2012

I would love to see you open in the Mechanicsville area (St. Mary's Co) or Hughsville (Charles Co) that would put you in the center of the three counties. And you'd have almost no competition near buy. There's some business parks along Rt. 231 in Calvert as well that would be very centralized.

Patrick · Jun 15, 2012

Hodgie said:
...

Calvert county was nice, lots of room for what we are looking to do with success however it appears that the county does not really want much to do with having a local in or outdoor range and has zoned very little areas and land to do this.

Most of the real-estate we were advised is already taken by other established business. I have a hard time believing that they did not already know this when they gave my partner the zoning map and sent him on his way wasting both our time and money searching for these zones. However we will be engaging a real estate agent from this county soon to pull anything that would meet our needs in the small area were were provided.

I am looking forward to making another trip down to check out Charles and St Marys county, in the upcoming weeks. My partner is from MD and feels one of these would be a great place to go if Calvert does not work out.

Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming along with any thing
you all would like to see in the local MD firearms market, I am always
open to comments and suggestions as to what people want.

Hodgie

Your challenge in Calvert I suspect has less to do with an anti-gun culture as it does with a pro-rural culture. Our official stance is, "not in my backyard" for just about anything commercial.

Calvert has only five commercial areas designated for development. If you were not grandfathered in prior to (I think) the late 70's, you cannot open a new retail establishment outside of the designated zones, save for limited farm and/or landscaping businesses. Variances just don't happen. Read up on a case where they wanted to put a new grocery store in the north side of the county a few years back, and the land and roads would have supported it. That said, it did not happen even though most of the local residents wanted it (it can be a long drive for a gallon of milk). It's kinda religion down here: keep it in restricted areas. Most of us agree and support the zoning.

In general, Calvert is terrified we might end up looking like Charles or Mary's with strip malls everywhere and the trash that tends to follow them. We got one area zoned for ~~trash~~ strip malls, and it's Prince Frederick. There is some new area getting developed over there, but my guess is it's going to be too expensive for a small outfit. Also, traffic in/out of PF is getting crazy bad during the rush.

I can think of a few places large enough for a shop and range in the central part of the county, that also are either grandfathered or in the right district. PM for info. You still need a permit for the range, but I have not picked up a big anti-gun vibe in the county. This is a mostly new council, so maybe things changed...

Gun shops here are almost non-existent and most transfers go through the few FFLs that will do it from work or from home.

Calvert is big with shooters. There are easily 8-10 private ranges surrounding mine. Summer weekends get busy with all the shooting. I've had visitors astounded at it all.

I'd love a good shop in Calvert, but finding any spot that can accommodate a new range would be hard for reasons well above guns. Trust me, it's love/hate with our zoning. Talk of a new Target or Home Despot in PF got everyone excited, but the store size limits (under 75K feet) scare the big boxes away. On the one hand, we hate Waldorf and don't want to be them. On the other, we hate having to drive to Waldorf to shop there. For the last couple of decades, the long drive has been less hassle than the trash that comes with the big shopping districts. We accept the limitations we place upon ourselves.

tomgreco · Jun 15, 2012

Hodgie said:
I am familiar with Maryland Small arms and was just there this past weekend seeing what they had to offer. I have also read a lot of people go there simply for the price which is excellent but almost impossible for any other new facility to match. Since they are a GSA contractor and about 90% plus of the people I saw in there were government contract security guards my personal feeling is they are subsidized by the federal government and this allows such a low price for all day admission, or just independently wealthy and want to give back.

I am curious to know if this same price and all day admission will be following them to their new location around the block. It also appeared to me that they were way over crowded under staffed and lacked organization simply due to the volume of customers.

I am not knocking then these were observations based on my personal consumer needs.

Hodgie

I've been to MSAR twice and walked out both times. And the horror stories I've heard don't inspire confidence. Myrtle Grove is good, but always crowded.

I think if you have a range like the NRA range with similar pricing you'll do fine.

chris12138 · Jun 15, 2012

jdramsey said:
I would love to see you open in the Mechanicsville area (St. Mary's Co) or Hughsville (Charles Co) that would put you in the center of the three counties. And you'd have almost no competition near buy. There's some business parks along Rt. 231 in Calvert as well that would be very centralized.

THIS! Mechanicsville is a perfect location.

Hodgie · Jun 15, 2012

Patrick said:
Your challenge in Calvert I suspect has less to do with an anti-gun culture as it does with a pro-rural culture. Our official stance is, "not in my backyard" for just about anything commercial.

Calvert has only five commercial areas designated for development. If you were not grandfathered in prior to (I think) the late 70's, you cannot open a new retail establishment outside of the designated zones, save for limited farm and/or landscaping businesses. Variances just don't happen. Read up on a case where they wanted to put a new grocery store in the north side of the county a few years back, and the land and roads would have supported it. That said, it did not happen even though most of the local residents wanted it (it can be a long drive for a gallon of milk). It's kinda religion down here: keep it in restricted areas. Most of us agree and support the zoning.

In general, Calvert is terrified we might end up looking like Charles or Mary's with strip malls everywhere and the trash that tends to follow them. We got one area zoned for ~~trash~~ strip malls, and it's Prince Frederick. There is some new area getting developed over there, but my guess is it's going to be too expensive for a small outfit. Also, traffic in/out of PF is getting crazy bad during the rush.

I can think of a few places large enough for a shop and range in the central part of the county, that also are either grandfathered or in the right district. PM for info. You still need a permit for the range, but I have not picked up a big anti-gun vibe in the county. This is a mostly new council, so maybe things changed...

Gun shops here are almost non-existent and most transfers go through the few FFLs that will do it from work or from home.

Calvert is big with shooters. There are easily 8-10 private ranges surrounding mine. Summer weekends get busy with all the shooting. I've had visitors astounded at it all.

I'd love a good shop in Calvert, but finding any spot that can accommodate a new range would be hard for reasons well above guns. Trust me, it's love/hate with our zoning. Talk of a new Target or Home Despot in PF got everyone excited, but the store size limits (under 75K feet) scare the big boxes away. On the one hand, we hate Waldorf and don't want to be them. On the other, we hate having to drive to Waldorf to shop there. For the last couple of decades, the long drive has been less hassle than the trash that comes with the big shopping districts. We accept the limitations we place upon ourselves.

Thank you for the information, is sounds like the people of Calvert have some inner conflict going on with new business and not changing.

There is nothing wrong with that since that is how I personally want to live, away from everything.

I was able to look at the Zoning map today of Calvert County and there are very few "Rural Commercial Zones" listed and that is what is required. More then likely the range will not end up here but we are still going to invest some time with a realtor and take a look.

Hodgie

mrozowjj · Jun 17, 2012

If i'm going to be honest and frank with you I am a slave to the almighty dollar and by that I mean I will buy from whoever gives me the best price so my interest in a new shop depends on whether or not they can save me money. Most of the local shops seem to overcharge by an amount that would sink any other business somehow they manage to stay open which is why I tend to take my business elsewhere.

There are the rare occurrences where I need something quicker than even the internet will allow and I will begrudgingly pay the premium at a local shop. The good news for you is that most of the local shops tend to be staffed entirely by tools or jerks that seem to think they are doing you a favor by even being willing to sell you a gun or ammo so if you manage to have half way decent customer service you would jump to the head of the line when that day comes when I do need to make a purchase in person. And if by some chance you are able to match or even beat the price of the internet or offer a very low transfer price I will probably be living in your shop. I'll bring the sleeping bag.

Patrick · Jun 17, 2012

Hodgie said:
Thank you for the information, is sounds like the people of Calvert have some inner conflict going on with new business and not changing. There is nothing wrong with that since that is how I personally want to live, away from everything.

I was able to look at the Zoning map today of Calvert County and there are very few "Rural Commercial Zones" listed and that is what is required. More then likely the range will not end up here but we are still going to invest some time with a realtor and take a look.

Hodgie

Don't think their is much inner conflict. We hate driving to waldorf, but would hate being waldorf even more. If you look at the map, there are maybe four roads in and out of this county. You got 4/2 at the north, 231 into Charles and 4 south. Done. Sure there are some back ways, but not for major traffic. And 90% of commercial except the beaches is on 4. Giving directions here is easy: go to 4 and turn right or left.

As simple as this is, it means we can get shut down pretty bad. It doesn't happen often, but a good accident will end a day. If you hear 4 north is shut down in the rush because of something bad, many will just turn and go home. Last year during the hurricane, some neighborhoods were cut off from everywhere else.

To your specific search: there is a 1 acre site that used to be a post office just near the 2/4 split. Outside the commercial centers but in a good location. I think its probably commercial grandfathered. Ask your realtor about the "post office with the crazy owner" and they'll know the exact spot. Your realtor may not show it unless you specifically ask, because there is a story behind it and the owner seems a little...nuts. Threatening county councilmen with dead animals kinda nuts.

Sounds perfect for a gun range. :lol2:

tomgreco · Jun 18, 2012

mrozowjj said:
If i'm going to be honest and frank with you I am a slave to the almighty dollar and by that I mean I will buy from whoever gives me the best price so my interest in a new shop depends on whether or not they can save me money. Most of the local shops seem to overcharge by an amount that would sink any other business somehow they manage to stay open which is why I tend to take my business elsewhere.

I tend to buy the same way only because the locals are sooo much more. I would gladly buy locally (I want to support local business) but can't justify the large markup. I know you have overhead, rent, and employees. I just don't know how that became my problem.

Hodgie · Jun 18, 2012

mrozowjj said:
If i'm going to be honest and frank with you I am a slave to the almighty dollar and by that I mean I will buy from whoever gives me the best price so my interest in a new shop depends on whether or not they can save me money. Most of the local shops seem to overcharge by an amount that would sink any other business somehow they manage to stay open which is why I tend to take my business elsewhere.

There are the rare occurrences where I need something quicker than even the internet will allow and I will begrudgingly pay the premium at a local shop. The good news for you is that most of the local shops tend to be staffed entirely by tools or jerks that seem to think they are doing you a favor by even being willing to sell you a gun or ammo so if you manage to have half way decent customer service you would jump to the head of the line when that day comes when I do need to make a purchase in person. And if by some chance you are able to match or even beat the price of the internet or offer a very low transfer price I will probably be living in your shop. I'll bring the sleeping bag.

Price is a huge factor for me when I buy, even people with money hate to waste it epically when you know you are being taken advantage of. In my research of the local stores we visited cost of Ammo, accessories and long restricted long guns was one of my main focuses.

I was not overly impressed with anyone but some were completely appalling to me. One local shop had a CAI Polish Tantnal listed at $999.99 and on sale for $900.00, and a box of American Eagle range ammo was $21.00 for 50 rounds. I saw other vendors with practice 9mm as high as $25 and change plus tax.

Now what you do have to take into consideration is a small local shop is no where on the same plain as a warehouse store online like AIM or Sports Mans guide. The more you buy from the manufacture the cheaper you get it for which means the less you can sell it for a profit. That being said there is a definite happy medium where you can still offer a good price and make a decent profit and keep repeat customers. Can most small shops sell 9mm for $9.00 a box like Walmart, most likely not but I think $13-$15.00 a box is something to strive for.

As far as the price of restricted long guns the only thing I can say or think is that some people are trying to pay their rent or business loans off with one or 2 sales a month. I don't like being taken advantage of and thought of as a stupid uneducated consumer so I would not expect the people in my store fronts to be idiots either.

I hope this will be good enough for most people who want to keep local
business up and running.

Hodgie

Hodgie · Jun 18, 2012

To your specific search: there is a 1 acre site that used to be a post office just near the 2/4 split. Outside the commercial centers but in a good location. I think its probably commercial grandfathered. Ask your realtor about the "post office with the crazy owner" and they'll know the exact spot. Your realtor may not show it unless you specifically ask, because there is a story behind it and the owner seems a little...nuts. Threatening county councilmen with dead animals kinda nuts.

Sounds perfect for a gun range.

Thanks for the information, I will research is this week.

Hodgie · Jun 18, 2012

tomgreco said:
I tend to buy the same way only because the locals are sooo much more. I would gladly buy locally (I want to support local business) but can't justify the large markup. I know you have overhead, rent, and employees. I just don't know how that became my problem.

Again it's not just the over head it's the quantity you can afford to buy of any 1 specific item and also the amount of room you physically can stock within your facility that is going to determine the sellers cost from the manufacture.

If I were to buy 10 pallets of 9mm compared to 10 cases my over all cost will be much less there for I can afford to pass on the savings. Me personally I would like to be able to offer close to what you can pay online for most things, I realize that this may not be able to be done on all things and its always easier to say these things before you are up and running but you try and do what you can to keep the customers happy and business coming in.

Hodgie

Chaunsey · Jun 22, 2012

i think theres a major opening for a good store with a range that allows rifles and has a good well stocked pro shop type store attached in SOMD.

MSAR is mostly a LE supply they have a poor gunshop and pretty high prices, and their range though cheap, has really poor ventilation/ac and its understaffed and viewed by many as unsafe and the big one for me, is they dont allow rifles, though it sounds like their new range will.

freds has a poor selection, poor service, and extremely high prices, their gun section seems by far the busiest part of their store but it looks and feels like a small gun section in the back of a furniture/out door goods store.

keepshooting is awesome but doesnt have a range or normal shop front, and there are a couple of other places in SOMD that are either so far south as to be out of reach for anyone outside st mary's.

almost everything else in MD is close to an hours drive from SOMD.

PG is not gonna be gun or even just business friendly period for that matter, and it sounds like calvert is a no go. st mary's is nice but farther south.

i think a location in charles county right on or just off 301 is ideal, its close enough to the beltway to bring in traffic from all over the area for those willing to drive a bit, its close enough south for the forlks down south, and its still far enough north for PG, AA and calvert county folks to regularly make the trip. northern SOMD has grown leaps and bounds in recent years and i think a good place would do well in the area.

and if you stock blackpowder, the real stuff, black powder repros and lots of milsurp you will need to add lodging, because i will be living there.

Hodgie · Jun 22, 2012

i think a location in charles county right on or just off 301 is ideal, its close enough to the beltway to bring in traffic from all over the area for those willing to drive a bit, its close enough south for the forlks down south, and its still far enough north for PG, AA and calvert county folks to regularly make the trip. northern SOMD has grown leaps and bounds in recent years and i think a good place would do well in the area.

We are meeting with a commercial real estate agent soon who deals with Calvert, Charles, and St Marys counties, hopefully we will have a decision
on a location and hopefully a bid on a properties in the upcoming month.

and if you stock blackpowder, the real stuff, black powder repros and lots of milsurp you will need to add lodging, because i will be living there.

That's my plan, my vision is to become a local one stop shop, for all things
shooting.

Thanks for your input.
Hodgie

Patrick · Jun 25, 2012

I, for one, welcome our new gun dealing overlords.

Good luck, and hope it all works out.

Room for a New Shop/Smith/ Indoor Range

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Is there room for a new Shop/Smith/Indoor Range facility in the Southers MD area.

A brand new Shop and state of the art indoor facility would be great!

Nope no more room for another store or indoor range in the Southern MD area.

I can care less either way.

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