HBAR requirement

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  • tony7815

    Member
    Feb 11, 2016
    30
    I have a polymer 80 lower that I thought I might fit with a 223 Wylde upper. I can get a nice upper at a good price from PSA with an 18 inch A2 style stainless barrel. I dread I already know the answer but I'll ask it anyway. Does the barrel have to be an HBAR?
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    I have a polymer 80 lower that I thought I might fit with a 223 Wylde upper. I can get a nice upper at a good price from PSA with an 18 inch A2 style stainless barrel. I dread I already know the answer but I'll ask it anyway. Does the barrel have to be an HBAR?

    If you legally possessed the lower prior to 10/1/13, the barrel does not have to be HBAR as it is grandfathered.

    If you first possessed the lower after 10/1/13, then IF you build it in to a rifle it must be HBAR and pass the other tests (features, minimum OAL, etc).

    If you build it in to a pistol you can put whatever barrel you want on there.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    If you legally possessed the lower prior to 10/1/13, the barrel does not have to be HBAR as it is grandfathered.

    If you first possessed the lower after 10/1/13, then IF you build it in to a rifle it must be HBAR and pass the other tests (features, minimum OAL, etc).

    If you build it in to a pistol you can put whatever barrel you want on there.

    In this case “possessed it” would mean it would have needed to be manufactured prior to 10/1/2013 (is completed the lower) If you hadn’t, it was just a hunk of plastic or aluminum, not a firearm.
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    In this case “possessed it” would mean it would have needed to be manufactured prior to 10/1/2013 (is completed the lower) If you hadn’t, it was just a hunk of plastic or aluminum, not a firearm.

    You're totally right. Somehow I missed that the OP was talking about an 80%.

    OP, as long as you did a single manufacturing operation (i.e. drilled one hole) on that 80% before 10/1/13, then you don't need the HBAR. If you waited until after 10/1/13 to do any work on it, then it's not grandfathered and you'll need an HBAR. It had to have been a firearm (i.e. had more than 80% of the machining operations completed) and in your possession before that magic date to be grandfathered.
     

    Amigo109

    Active Member
    Jan 25, 2018
    265
    Columbia MD
    Out of curiosity, how can MD enforce a law when they would have no way of knowing when you bought the lower? Do they assume it's not grandfathered unless you can prove it is? Is the burden on the state to prove it's illegal, or on the individual to prove it's legal? It just seems like a law that is pretty hard to enforce unless they catch someone in the act of buying the gun, or a gun.
     

    omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    Out of curiosity, how can MD enforce a law when they would have no way of knowing when you bought the lower? Do they assume it's not grandfathered unless you can prove it is? Is the burden on the state to prove it's illegal, or on the individual to prove it's legal? It just seems like a law that is pretty hard to enforce unless they catch someone in the act of buying the gun, or a gun.

    How much of your resources are you willing to invest fighting it when they lock you up?
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Out of curiosity, how can MD enforce a law when they would have no way of knowing when you bought the lower? Do they assume it's not grandfathered unless you can prove it is? Is the burden on the state to prove it's illegal, or on the individual to prove it's legal? It just seems like a law that is pretty hard to enforce unless they catch someone in the act of buying the gun, or a gun.

    Lowers go on a 77r, so they do know. Since it went on a 4473, BATFE can trace it like a stolen firearm too. If its an 80%, they can get bank records electronically going back forever too. All depends how badly they want you. Of course, they may bluff and force you to come up with the evidence at trial. They will probably figure that since your life depends on it you will be able to come up with some reasonable doubt. Or not.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    Lowers go on a 77r, so they do know. Since it went on a 4473, BATFE can trace it like a stolen firearm too. If its an 80%, they can get bank records electronically going back forever too. All depends how badly they want you. Of course, they may bluff and force you to come up with the evidence at trial. They will probably figure that since your life depends on it you will be able to come up with some reasonable doubt. Or not.

    80% lower secrecy kit:

    :cool:


    th
    th
     

    Shane4

    Member
    Aug 5, 2012
    60
    I would only do it if I had a receipt on an 80% from before 2013 just in case. Also make sure that "brand" actually existed before the date. Bear Creek Arsenal has some HBAR uppers for super cheap as well
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Out of curiosity, how can MD enforce a law when they would have no way of knowing when you bought the lower? .

    Realistically?

    They can't.

    The burden of proof is on the state, and they can't prove in court that you didn't buy the unfinished 80% lower in cash from some guy prior to 10/1/13. However, that likely wouldn't stop them from arresting you and filing charges if someone got a bug up their ass about it for whatever reason. Then you're on the hook for defending yourself, paying a lawyer, etc.
     
    I would only do it if I had a receipt on an 80% from before 2013 just in case. Also make sure that "brand" actually existed before the date. Bear Creek Arsenal has some HBAR uppers for super cheap as well

    The state has the burden of proof, not the citizen..You don't have to show them anything..

    This right here is the reason the liberals continue to pass more and more gun control...because many gun owners are all too willing to jump through every hoop they put in front of them...The more you comply with illegal, unconstitutional infringement the more they pass...
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,154
    The state has the burden of proof, not the citizen..You don't have to show them anything..

    This right here is the reason the liberals continue to pass more and more gun control...because many gun owners are all too willing to jump through every hoop they put in front of them...The more you comply with illegal, unconstitutional infringement the more they pass...

    But it still costs to defend yourself. And they will bleed you dry if they can....because we pay for their expenses through taxes as well as our own.
     

    omegared24

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 23, 2011
    4,747
    Ijamsville, MD
    The state has the burden of proof, not the citizen..You don't have to show them anything..

    This right here is the reason the liberals continue to pass more and more gun control...because many gun owners are all too willing to jump through every hoop they put in front of them...The more you comply with illegal, unconstitutional infringement the more they pass...

    You can pave the road here and tell us how it goes.
     

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