Kolbe v. O'Malley Hearing - Commentary & Link to Audio

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  • AGCLVP

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2009
    142
    The main point to remember is that the following brief commentary is from "mental notes" and is not a prediction of the results of this hearing. For additional detail, listen to the audio recording of the hearing. Nothing is final until the actual official ruling is handed down. Even then, it is likely that this case will be appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS).

    The hearing opened with a strong presentation from John Parker Sweeney which clearly articulated why the Maryland ban on so-called "assault weapons" and the ban on standard capacity magazines violates the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens.

    Mr. Sweeney also questioned the State's use of the concept of "dangerousness" which has no legal basis in firearms law.

    At one point Judge King challenged Mr. Sweeney regarding a position taken by the State. The challenge was met head on by Mr. Sweeney's response: "They're wrong."

    The State's case was argued by Matthew J. Fader whose position was probably not helped by having Attorney General Brian Frosh sitting there watching him.

    Judge Agee questioned Mr. Fader on whether or not a six shot Smith & Wesson revolver was protected by the Second Amendment. After some back and forth exchanges, Mr. Fader finally conceded that a revolver was protected by the Second Amendment.

    A follow-up question from Judge Agee made reference to the Judge's Glock pistol with a 15 round magazine which the Judge keeps on his night table produced an even more interesting exchange. Mr. Fader's hesitant and evasive responses made it clear the the State was not willing to concede that semi-automatic pistols are protected by the Second Amendment.

    The general consensus among those of us who sat in the hearing room was that our legal team did an outstanding job and we are hopeful of a successful outcome.

    We anticipate that a ruling will he handed down in approximately 60 to 90 days.It should be noted that if we are successful, it is very likely that Attorney General Frosh will appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS).

    Listen to the Audio Recording of the Entire Hearing:

    Click here for the audio recording on the 4th Circuit Court Website

    Click on case number 14-1945
    (Don't be mislead by the reference to Governor Hogan as the lawsuit always names the Governor currently in office. This is same same lawsuit filed against then Governor O'Malley.)

    This recording can be downloaded to your computer.

    To save the MP3 file, right-click the case number and select "Save link as..." or "Save target as..."

    Click here for the AGC Special Report in the AGC archive.

    CLICK HERE TO JOIN THE AGC'S LEGISLATIVE EMAIL LIST FOR FURTHER UPDATES.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    So the good judge presumably sees the utility of a damned good 15 round Glock on his nightstand. Wouldn't be my personal choice, but a much better debate to be having, and God Bless America just the same!

    One step closer in the long journey toward much needed closure. The time is coming for a final answer. Fingers crossed for the favorable one our founders intended.

    Thanks for posting!
     

    Objee

    Active Member
    Oct 3, 2013
    610
    Sweeney (paraphrased) "I don't have to shoot it out my window every day to prove I have it for self defense."

    I thought that was an excellent point, one often overlooked by the "other side" when they attempt to portray the use of a certain firearm for self defense as uncommon, or slanted to their side when the only "self-defense" cases they look at are the ones where the weapon is fired or a death occurs.
     

    moojersey

    Sic Semper Tyrannis
    Sep 7, 2013
    3,006
    Cecil County
    I was not really thrilled with our sides arguments. I hope I'm wrong and just don't know what I should have been listening for.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Having just finished listening (for the first time), I got to say that I am not convinced that we necessarily have this won. Listening to a tape, of course, is not the same thing as being there, as there is no way to read body language (which can be quite informative). We may win and some of the questions were favorable, but not all of them. The court will have to wrestle with this notion that ARs are somehow uniquely dangerous military-type weapons. We know it is crazy, but we know guns. Judges don't know guns. Of course, if the state wins on their theory, Sweeney is right, the next ban will be on semiauto handguns.
     

    Schipperke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    18,532
    So the good judge presumably sees the utility of a damned good 15 round Glock on his nightstand. Wouldn't be my personal choice, but a much better debate to be having, and God Bless America just the same!

    One step closer in the long journey toward much needed closure. The time is coming for a final answer. Fingers crossed for the favorable one our founders intended.

    Thanks for posting!

    I heard that as a rhetorical question, not that it applies to him personally as some infer.
     

    AGCLVP

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2009
    142
    To get the most out of the audio of the arguments, it is necessary to be familiar with the written arguments presented as well as the previous court cases referenced,

    The body language of the court was positive toward our side and far less so toward the other side. The judges often appeared skeptical toward Mr. Fader's responses, especially regarding the semi-automatic pistol exchange.

    The question may have been rhetorical but Judge Agee made references a Smith & Wesson revolver and a Glock pistol. He did not simply reference a revolver and a semi-automatic pistol. Judge King on the other hand did not come across as having any real personal knowledge of any specific firearm, despite his reference to the ubiquitous AG-47...

    There are no guarantees, but we all left the hearing with a positive attitude; unlike the hearing in the Maryland Court where it was obvious that Judge Blake was not going to rule in our favor even if it meant the sky would fall.

    Either way, this case will probably be appealed to the Supreme Court. In the meantime, stay positive.
     
    To get the most out of the audio of the arguments, it is necessary to be familiar with the written arguments presented as well as the previous court cases referenced,

    The body language of the court was positive toward our side and far less so toward the other side. The judges often appeared skeptical toward Mr. Fader's responses, especially regarding the semi-automatic pistol exchange.

    The question may have been rhetorical but Judge Agee made references a Smith & Wesson revolver and a Glock pistol. He did not simply reference a revolver and a semi-automatic pistol. Judge King on the other hand did not come across as having any real personal knowledge of any specific firearm, despite his reference to the ubiquitous AG-47...

    There are no guarantees, but we all left the hearing with a positive attitude; unlike the hearing in the Maryland Court where it was obvious that Judge Blake was not going to rule in our favor even if it meant the sky would fall.

    Either way, this case will probably be appealed to the Supreme Court. In the meantime, stay positive.

    If they rule in favor of the 2nd amendment who would appeal it? It's got Hogan's name on it now...Why would he appeal?
     

    Rick3bears

    Grumpy Old Coot
    Jul 28, 2012
    533
    Somewhere, MD
    The main point to remember is that the following brief commentary is from "mental notes" and is not a prediction of the results of this hearing. For additional detail, listen to the audio recording of the hearing. Nothing is final until the actual official ruling is handed down. Even then, it is likely that this case will be appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS).

    The hearing opened with a strong presentation from John Parker Sweeney which clearly articulated why the Maryland ban on so-called "assault weapons" and the ban on standard capacity magazines violates the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens.

    Mr. Sweeney also questioned the State's use of the concept of "dangerousness" which has no legal basis in firearms law.

    At one point Judge King challenged Mr. Sweeney regarding a position taken by the State. The challenge was met head on by Mr. Sweeney's response: "They're wrong."

    The State's case was argued by Matthew J. Fader whose position was probably not helped by having Attorney General Brian Frosh sitting there watching him.

    Judge Agee questioned Mr. Fader on whether or not a six shot Smith & Wesson revolver was protected by the Second Amendment. After some back and forth exchanges, Mr. Fader finally conceded that a revolver was protected by the Second Amendment.

    A follow-up question from Judge Agee made reference to the Judge's Glock pistol with a 15 round magazine which the Judge keeps on his night table produced an even more interesting exchange. Mr. Fader's hesitant and evasive responses made it clear the the State was not willing to concede that semi-automatic pistols are protected by the Second Amendment.

    The general consensus among those of us who sat in the hearing room was that our legal team did an outstanding job and we are hopeful of a successful outcome.

    We anticipate that a ruling will he handed down in approximately 60 to 90 days.It should be noted that if we are successful, it is very likely that Attorney General Frosh will appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS).

    Listen to the Audio Recording of the Entire Hearing:

    Click here for the audio recording on the 4th Circuit Court Website

    Click on case number 14-1945
    (Don't be mislead by the reference to Governor Hogan as the lawsuit always names the Governor currently in office. This is same same lawsuit filed against then Governor O'Malley.)

    This recording can be downloaded to your computer.

    To save the MP3 file, right-click the case number and select "Save link as..." or "Save target as..."

    Click here for the AGC Special Report in the AGC archive.

    CLICK HERE TO JOIN THE AGC'S LEGISLATIVE EMAIL LIST FOR FURTHER UPDATES.
    Thanks so much for all the time and effort you put into this. It is deeply appreciated.
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    Can't we look at the conduct of other states and how they regulate or don't regulate the AR-15 or even the magazine capacity. To my knowledge, only 7 states have magazine capacity limits. 5 are 10 rds, 2 are 15 rds. Only one state, HI, only applies the limit to handguns.

    That equates to 14% of the states that have capacity limits and 86% of states DO NOT have capacity limits.

    http://smartgunlaws.org/large-capacity-ammunition-magazines-policy-summary/
     

    drblast33

    [This Space for Sale ...]
    I hate how these go because I feel like some judges ask questions crafted to go down a useless rabbit hole. The questions do nothing but take time away from the testimony. I feel like they should go back and forth for a month, and they should let them.
     

    AGCLVP

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2009
    142
    Governor Hogan has no influence with Brian Frosh because the Attorney General of Maryland is an independent elective office.

    Frosh will probably do whatever he can to keep the gun ban in place. This is why I have cautioned that as promising as the 4th Circuit hearing was, it is not the final act.

    One way or the other, this case is headed for the Supreme Court. Whether or not SCOTUS will agree to hear the case is another matter.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,407
    Governor Hogan has no influence with Brian Frosh because the Attorney General of Maryland is an independent elective office.

    Frosh will probably do whatever he can to keep the gun ban in place. This is why I have cautioned that as promising as the 4th Circuit hearing was, it is not the final act.

    One way or the other, this case is headed for the Supreme Court. Whether or not SCOTUS will agree to hear the case is another matter.

    agreed
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    Just remember who pays the judges. It not the plaintiff. I think any other weapon other than the AR-16/M-16 would be better to discuss and demonstrate the illogic state argument. It only goes to the "common use" issue.

    How did they come to select those weapons on the list? There was a brief mention as to the weapons being in use by other militaries, but we know they just look like the other weapons and are entirely different. We'll all be in trouble when militaries go to semi-auto only.

    It would be interesting to know how many enemies are killed by bolt action snipers versus M-16s.
     

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