Converting PTR-91 Pistol into SBR?

Inigoes · Mar 17, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
I am fairly sure SBR are not going to fall under the ban, assuming there is one. Actually I am almost counting on it. Also if they are, then the ATF will just have to meet that deadline... Otherwise I just see to many lawsuits coming. There is just no way a judge is going to side with the government that their slow processing of paperwork made it so you could not buy a gun.

I just like PTR better. I have seen a bit of vector and it would not scare me away but I have seen them with a lot more issues then PTRs... almost none there. PTR is the gold standard of US made HK91s... which all others must compare.

See Farmer v. Higgins.

ericoak · Mar 17, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
I am fairly sure SBR are not going to fall under the ban, assuming there is one. Actually I am almost counting on it. Also if they are, then the ATF will just have to meet that deadline... Otherwise I just see to many lawsuits coming. There is just no way a judge is going to side with the government that their slow processing of paperwork made it so you could not buy a gun.

I just like PTR better. I have seen a bit of vector and it would not scare me away but I have seen them with a lot more issues then PTRs... almost none there. PTR is the gold standard of US made HK91s... which all others must compare.

Also, even though manufacturing new machine guns is illegal, the ATF still allows you to fill out a Form 1 and rewat a deactivated MG even though Form 1s are for manufacturing an NFA weapon.

ericoak · Mar 17, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
I am fairly sure SBR are not going to fall under the ban, assuming there is one. Actually I am almost counting on it. Also if they are, then the ATF will just have to meet that deadline... Otherwise I just see to many lawsuits coming. There is just no way a judge is going to side with the government that their slow processing of paperwork made it so you could not buy a gun.

I just like PTR better. I have seen a bit of vector and it would not scare me away but I have seen them with a lot more issues then PTRs... almost none there. PTR is the gold standard of US made HK91s... which all others must compare.

You don't think SBRs will fall under the ban? You mean SBRing a receiver you already posses? I am pretty sure you couldn't buy new SBRs under the old federal ban. Not the same law though.

punchBIGholes · Mar 17, 2013

smores said:
They're a blast if you're a recoil or noise junkie lol.

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

Haha im planning on the noise. Im currently taking ASL to compensate for when im deaf.

Inigoes · Mar 17, 2013

Oh yeah

Make sure you have a good dental plan! The concussion from the bigguns can loosen your fillings

IMBLITZVT · Mar 17, 2013

Inigoes said:
See Farmer v. Higgins.

See what about Farmer v Higgines...? I don't like to guess at what point you are trying to make. Please add link.

ericoak said:
Also, even though manufacturing new machine guns is illegal, the ATF still allows you to fill out a Form 1 and rewat a deactivated MG even though Form 1s are for manufacturing an NFA weapon.

Manufacturing a new MG is not illegal. They just are not allowing further registration from private individuals.

Actually reactification of a MG is considered manufacturing a MG. I will not be listed on any future form 4 (or other number) as the manufacture of my 1918 MG08/15... which is stupid but still what the ATF says!

ericoak said:
You don't think SBRs will fall under the ban? You mean SBRing a receiver you already posses? I am pretty sure you couldn't buy new SBRs under the old federal ban. Not the same law though.

No I don't think SBRs will fall under the ban. Either SBRing a receiver you have or getting a new one. I don't think SBRs will be considered semi auto rifles. Look you can SBR an assault pistol right now... why? Because its not a pistol. Just as an SBR is not a rifle. Its a SBR. Different category.

I don't know if a post ban SBR had to follow the 94 AWB but that answer would be interesting but yes thats on a Federal level and may not really mean much to us.

hvymax · Mar 17, 2013

What is the maximum length on a pistol barrel? I am knocking around a pistol till SBR build.

ericoak · Mar 17, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
See what about Farmer v Higgines...? I don't like to guess at what point you are trying to make. Please add link.

Manufacturing a new MG is not illegal. They just are not allowing further registration from private individuals. Actually reactification of a MG is considered manufacturing a MG. I will not be listed on any future form 4 (or other number) as the manufacture of my 1918 MG08/15... which is stupid but still what the ATF says!

But you are a private individual and they let you fill out a Form 1 for a MG, right? So they are accepting at least some.

Inigoes · Mar 18, 2013

hvymax said:
What is the maximum length on a pistol barrel? I am knocking around a pistol till SBR build.

There is none for a pistol

Farmer V. Higgins, is a case about the hughes amendment circa 1986 when farmer had a MG but not by the cutoff date. Halbrooke was the alwyer in the case.

IMBLITZVT · Mar 18, 2013

ericoak said:
But you are a private individual and they let you fill out a Form 1 for a MG, right? So they are accepting at least some.

Well yes and no. Rewatting is really something unrelated to other types of guns. Lets face it you start with a MG, then rewat it and have the same MG... its kind of a grandfathered in thing relating to the beginning of the MG registration.

Inigoes said:
There is none for a pistol

Farmer V. Higgins, is a case about the hughes amendment circa 1986 when farmer had a MG but not by the cutoff date. Halbrooke was the alwyer in the case.

Yes but what is your point? We know a guy filing to make a new MG post May 86 will be denied. What I was asking was those who filed pre-may but did not get the paperwork back until post may! This case is about something else.

ericoak · Mar 18, 2013

Well I remember reading an article on Group Industries and everyone else working 20 hours till the cutoff date.

Inigoes · Mar 18, 2013

IMBLITZVT said:
Yes but what is your point? We know a guy filing to make a new MG post May 86 will be denied. What I was asking was those who filed pre-may but did not get the paperwork back until post may! This case is about something else.

The moral of the story: if the paperwork isn't complete by a set deadline, there is a possibility that the transaction will not be approved.

Remember, there is only a hint of a deadline in the near future - nothing concrete as of yet.

IMBLITZVT · Mar 18, 2013

ericoak said:
Well I remember reading an article on Group Industries and everyone else working 20 hours till the cutoff date.

Yes well for a manufacture, they just have to notify the ATF that they built a MG... not wait for approval. So I don't know how it worked for individuals. We were not around for that one but maybe one of the older guys remember how that worked...

Inigoes said:
The moral of the story: if the paperwork isn't complete by a set deadline, there is a possibility that the transaction will not be approved.

Remember, there is only a hint of a deadline in the near future - nothing concrete as of yet.

Not really, obviously once a ban is in place there is nothing more that can be done short of a lawsuit. There was never any doubt there...
However in the last round of changes, they do allow you to registered guns legally owned pre Oct that were not registered in time as long as you pay a fine...and you are voluntarily registering it (not after being caught).

ericoak · Mar 18, 2013

Agreed that case sounds different since possession occured after the cut off date right?

IMBLITZVT · Mar 18, 2013

ericoak said:
Agreed that case sounds different since possession occured after the cut off date right?

Yeah it says he applied in Oct when the cut off was in May. I don't think anyone thinks you will be able to buy a gun off this list come 2014 if this passes and given nothing else happens...

bobthefisher · Mar 31, 2013

erwos said:
I see a few problems here that are being ignored.
1. The PTR-91 pistol isn't on the handgun roster, so you'd either have to submit it to the roster (slow), or have your FFL07/SOT do the SBR conversion and transfer it on a form 4 (expensive)
2. A factory SBR isn't going to make it into your hot hands before October 1, which is when the MD AWB may be kicking in (with uncertain effects on SBRs). Form 3s are taking like 8 weeks at this point, form 4s are six months. Don't expect that to get better soon.
3. You are marginal for a form 1 or form 4, time-wise, if you want to get it approved and built before the possible MD AWB. You are flat-out not going to make it if you don't have a trust already.

I agree with erwos that it's important to inform people of a potential substantial loss if they try to SBR a rifle after Oct. 1st. To me that's a completely responsible warning in my opinion, as some of this will be left up to the interpretation of MSP. However, if you're willing to take the risk, it has been my interpretation of the law (as it stands now), as far as manufacturing definitions differences between state and federal levels, that making an SBR of a rifle\pistol that was purchased before Oct. 1st, will still be acceptable.

Bottom line, it all comes down to... roll the dice if you can afford it!

Hopalong · Apr 1, 2013

SCARCQB said:
Do not forget the Tylenol and sunblock......shooting stuff like that is how Inigoes tans his legs before shorts season.

The mental image...it burns....

Inigoes · Apr 3, 2013

Hopalong said:
The mental image...it burns....

it works!

smores · Apr 3, 2013

BradMacc82 said:
You say that like that's a bad thing.

No I didn't! You should hear my 11.5" AR unsuppressed with my YHM brake. The only sbr louder and more concussive I've seen has been a HK "51K" lol.

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

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