Confiscation question.

There are many that don't care what a court of law says. When an unjust law that takes away a god given right comes down the pipe, many won't follow it. Id like to think enough would stand against in defiance to make repeal happen. If you follow a moral compass you'll never regret your path. The criminal is the one who thinks he is the ruler and makes unjust rules that they want others to follow. Slavery is a good example. Would you allow slavery to happen?

My personal opinion is, the masters in the democratic party want power and control. Their followers are of varying degrees on gun control, but as we have seen with gay marriage, transgender, fake racism claims, wage pay gap claims, sexism, everythingism, if you don't agree and tow the company line, you are part of the problem. And they don't want that. I have a relative who was fairly pro gun but liberal, and is now sliding into the further left trend of no one needs a semi automatic weapon except police and military. Look at the drafted 2019 Assault Weapons bill. Basically everything that has a detachable magazine, pistol grip, certain stock or vertical grips, threaded barrels. It's WORSE than the restrictions in Canada. Even democrat moderates have been racing to go farther left than their presidential opponents. It's a race to the edge of insanity to see who will go over first. They bicker about who is more anti gun, and not who is for the people being able to defend themselves. At the same time they don't want the people to defend themselves, they fail to back the police, and fail to prosecute people who end up committing the bulk of the murders. So my belief is they want an almost total ban on firearms ownership. Maybe a pump action shotgun, musket, or revolver for defense and hunting, with licensing, insurance, storage requirement, and a mess of regulations and restrictions. Look at California and New Yorkjersey as beta testing.
HOW will they accomplish this?

My opinion, it is a long game, but they are ramping it up faster and faster.

1. Create fear and hysteria. Get the public to ask for restrictions. Heck, many of them want the 2A repealed. The media is helping with advertising and fear mongering. Prosecutors in urban Democrat areas are being soft on crime, with the illusion of being tolerant or forgiving to disadvantaged minorities. But when released they come back to destroy their very own communities. The people need to be in a constant state of fear, and contempt for us who also are armed. They equate us with the criminals, and because we are different, see us as more dangerous. Propaganda.

2. Voting. This is a 3 part attack. A- Gerrymandering, rendering conservative zones impotent buy stacking the deck in their favor. I live in a prime example, Carroll County. We are not really represented well, IMHO. B- Tax migration. Areas of high taxes cause more wealthy liberals to flee, but they flee to cheaper to live areas, and bring their liberal politics with them. Gun control with it. They are like a plague, pushing out of California, Maryland, Norther Virginia, Portland, Seattle, etc. Texas is under attack, Georgia, Florida, Pennsylvania. Once red states turning purple. C- Immigration. They have no problem attacking LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS, yet can't stand the fact our president is enforcing immigration law. The people migrating here illegally see the democrats as their saviors, fighting for them. Big empty promises. And they are obliged to vote democrat in a majority

3. International pressure. With other countries issuing travel warnings about the US, and UN meddling, I see more international pressure with publicized mass shootings, to do something to "civilize" us wild west yanks. The UN small arms treaty was just the beginning. I see more and more future pushes for civilian disarmament.

4. The guise of safety and patriotism. The red flag laws, claims of coercion, threats, reporting Facebook posts. Your anti gun neighbor sees you carrying guns to your car to go to the range, and floats the idea you are going on a shooting. Like in Nazi Germany, and the old Combloc nations, they depended on snooping neighbors, rumors, and spying. We post so much on the web. Facebook. Forums. I am pretty sure we have moles in this forum, and most of this forum is visible and easily directed to by Google. For some reason we can't go back an edit older posts or remove pictures anymore either, so it is out there to see. Red Flag laws are the big push now, and I guarantee will be abused, and although I feel they are unconstitutional, if they will be upheld for a long time by the courts. Maybe even SCOTUS depending on how long it takes to get there, and who is in. It will be your patriotic duty to protect the public and report suspicious activity, questionable online posts, perceived threats, and report any hints of white supremacy/nationalism. In the event they do prevent one shooting event by utilizing a red flag law, all our rights will be damned, and it will be seen as for the good of the nation and that they do work. Prompting more Debbie Do-Gooders to call in reports. If one or two innocent gun owners question it and get shot, they will clearly be labeled threats, or aggressors after the fact. Their families torn and humiliated. They'll use ex-spouses and partners to report on us. I mean, how many of us have had bad break ups or divorces with a vindictive ex? Your spouse is your trusted, best friend, until the day they aren't. Then they are often your enemy, with plenty of info on you. Sad, but true. About 50% of marriages end in divorce sadly, and most not well. I have bought several guns at divorce sale prices.

5. Execution of the plan. So, they probably know we out number them, we the 2A community, they the corrupt rulers. If they did a head on confiscation it would end badly for them. I think they learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco, not to attack head on, even if they win, they lose. They will play the long game. To get the guns, after compiling online data, postings, gun pics, and memes or drunk posts, rants, and ventings, they'll create a portfolio on us. Like a credit portfolio, but a civil threat portfolio. The NSA recently expanded their data storage facilities. The media and democrats are claiming white gun owning nationalists are the biggest threats in America now. So, who will the concentrate spying on?

It will be a public campaign. Like in the UK with knives, publicly and harshly shaming gun owners. Making us pariahs. Perceived threats Hollyweird will go further anti-gun, except in their movies. Banks pressured to stop doing business with gun stores and manufacturers. Insurance companies putting in policy restrictions for gun owners. Credit card and online banking watching for gun related purchasing like Paypal did. I think Visa said they were looking into it. I think the artificial intelligence that Google and Facebook uses will be directed to look for us, analyze us, a log our data and store it. Flagging questionable content and reporting it. AI is a big threat online to us.

If we don't comply, we will be classified as enemies of the state. Our credit will be frozen. Liens put on our homes and property if we don't pay the licensing schemes, the gun fees, the safety fees, buy gun insurance, or accept their buyback offers. They'll pressure or scare our employers. "Hey Walmart, did you know employee was posting this stuff online? You better keep an eye on that potential safety threat." They'll hit us where it hurts. In the pocket book, or the family. Property seizures, tax claims, etc. They'll classify us as dangerous and take our kids while we are at work, and they are at school. They'll make a public display of it. Our families will be angry at us. Our friends will think we are selfish for just wanting our little weapons of war. They'll fight dirty, and they have the means, the money, and the media. "So an so had an arsenal of 20 guns, and 1,000 rounds of ammunition. He must have been ready to wage a war! Frightening!"

So, what can we do? Well, me personally, I looked at the assault weapons ban proposals, both the AWB of 1994, and the most current versions, and kinda looked at what they are going after.
I really didn't think we'd get hit this hard, this quickly. I was stocking up for the long game. Buying ammo for me, my wife, my 2 kids, and possibly grand kids, assuming ammo would eventually be hard to get. So, I have 100 rounds of ammo. So, keeping some in various places might help.

What looks scary? Pistol grips, magazines, muzzle devices, scopes, lasers, etc. I have been looking for a monte carlo stock for my Tec 12 to make it look more civilized. It also moonlights as a pump action shotgun. Got some SKS rifles. Kept my Veprs and M77 in their safe and imported condition sporterized configurations. I have alternatives to the AR15. Without going into too much detail, should a ban or confiscation come for AR15s before my kids are grown and out, I will admit, I will probably let them have them. I have a fallback. I have 2 ARs, and I am not willing to let my kids grow up fatherless for them. I have other means. Maybe when they are 18+, I will feel more attached to my AR15s. But for now, my kids mean more to me, and I don't want the state using them as pawns. I have some "fudd" guns to pass inspection. I have some collateral damage guns that will be sacrificial lambs. But, I will not be disarmed, even though I don't actually have any assault rifles.

Operational security. Sounds funny online maybe. Watch what you post, and who sees it. For years I have been to free posting online thinking I was anonymous. I have been scrubbing some stuff online, especially as co-workers get curious. I also limit what my kids, see, know, and hear. I limit my rants around them. They know I have a few guns, but not exactly what or how many. They also know, if asked by a teacher, administrator or doctor if we have guns to simply reply, "I don't know." It is frankly none of their business, and they have no business asking my kids. I have never, and would never harm them, so it is just a fishing expedition. Make sure they don't talk about it at school, or online, and no posting pics of us at the range online on their accounts. I do in limited arenas, and to limited audiences. And the wife. This is a hard one. Many happily married man may scoff at this, those of us that have been thru the wringer can see it. My wife knows I have guns. Not exactly what model, not exactly how many. In the case our divorce proceeded, I had some guns set aside to break up in the split. I hate to say "Trust no one", but, "Trust no one."

I am also looking at getting a gun trust should a ban happen, so the guns would already be family property to be handed down, if it can work that way. I did contact a lawyer, but got sidetracked and lost touch. Will reach back out.

I also have other various, legal plans in place should an AWB or buyback happen. I don't want to let everything out on a public forum, but I have been planning for this eventuality now for a while hoping it would never come. Seeing republicans say they are willing to discuss certain gun control means, and the president's words have given me an uneasy feeling. I totally hope I am wrong, but I am planning for the worst. It seems the 2A people fight like crazy, outnumbering the leftist anti-gunners, only to be infringed upon. Hell, the left claims not only the 2A, but the whole constitution is outdated, and needs to be re-written. Ginsburg is one of them. To incorporate human rights, racial rights, gender rights, gay/trans rights, healthcare rights, wage rights, food and housing rights. Maybe even smartphone, social media, and food rights. Climate amendments. Intolerance amendments.
I feel the world has gone mad, and I am a lone candle in a hurricane sometimes.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th...jP3W4eXbbv34C33tFFv1BlbSmsevjnwsUsyw_qXRg1vDE

“(36) The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’ means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:

“(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of the following:

“(i) A pistol grip.

“(ii) A forward grip.

“(iii) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock, or is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of the weapon.

“(iv) A grenade launcher.

“(v) A barrel shroud.

“(vi) A threaded barrel.

“(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

“(C) Any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun.

“(D) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of the following:

“(i) A threaded barrel.

“(ii) A second pistol grip.

“(iii) A barrel shroud.

“(iv) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

“(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

“(vi) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when unloaded.

“(vii) A stabilizing brace or similar component.

“(E) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

“(F) A semiautomatic shotgun that has any 1 of the following:

“(i) A folding, telescoping, or detachable stock.

“(ii) A pistol grip.

“(iii) A fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds.

“(iv) The ability to accept a detachable magazine.

“(v) A forward grip.

“(vi) A grenade launcher.

“(G) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

“(H) All of the following rifles, copies, duplicates, variants, or altered facsimiles with the capability of any such weapon thereof:

fidelity said:

The writer of this piece below, David Kopel, is a sober and credible 2A advocate. He shares some strong criticisms/warnings based on reports that the Trump administration is moving toward UBCs with language that would ultimately strengthen keeping track of who has acquired what guns (that he argues will lay the groundwork for future confiscation) ...

Trump Must Not Break His Promises to Gun-Rights Supporters

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That is a solid article. I’m hoping Trump drops this idiocy when the hysteria dies down; but I don’t trust him or 80% of the GOP to do anything but make more empty promises to string us along.

Bright side in all this doom and gloom is maybe the Dems do the usual and get far too radical too fast. The slow play works worst for us but if they try and move immediately into Euro style authoritarianism, esp by focusing on the burbs and heartland while not going after disarming urban gangs it’ll be enough to cause outrage.


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RepublicOfFranklin said:

That is a solid article. I’m hoping Trump drops this idiocy when the hysteria dies down; but I don’t trust him or 80% of the GOP to do anything but make more empty promises to string us along.

Bright side in all this doom and gloom is maybe the Dems do the usual and get far too radical too fast. The slow play works worst for us but if they try and move immediately into Euro style authoritarianism, esp by focusing on the burbs and heartland while not going after disarming urban gangs it’ll be enough to cause outrage.


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Psychos killing at Walmarts and Elementary Schools raise reasonable fear from Soccer Moms far and wide in the USA. Try blaming them first and you may see where the anti gunners logic begins. An AR 15 made Sandy Hook the beginning of paranoia - which is fear real or imagined. Moms afraid of losing a kid to a nut job is imagined? Maybe not at all. Stripping guns away from all of us except Urban Gangs- well, that seems a pretty imaginary outcome. That said, the days of buying AR15s may be coming to an end. We will have to hold off those Urban gangs with our Winchester lever actions...

RepublicOfFranklin said:

Bright side in all this doom and gloom is maybe the Dems do the usual and get far too radical too fast. The slow play works worst for us but if they try and move immediately into Euro style authoritarianism, esp by focusing on the burbs and heartland while not going after disarming urban gangs it’ll be enough to cause outrage.


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We all hope, but that remains to be seen.



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ADR said:

So you feel the same way about Maryland permits right? (Everyone who currently has one should lose it unless everyone can get them.)

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Like boats said, everyone. I think you might be looking at the smaller picture.

Sirex said:

I was stocking up for the long game. Buying ammo for me, my wife, my 2 kids, and possibly grand kids, assuming ammo would eventually be hard to get. So, I have 100 rounds of ammo.

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I see what you did there.



As far as overall confiscation: If you aren't in the 80% game at this point, then you need to reorient your mindset. (That is for everyone, not directed at you Sirex)

Taking all guns, even staple guns, is the ultimate goal. But that's just the beginning. One day democrats will have all three branches of government. They will probably say that NRA members forfeit Social Security and Medicare benefits since the NRA is a "terrorist" organization. Yeah, sounds crazy but have you been listening to Warren, Buttigieg and Sanders lately?

The sky is the limit to what they will do when they get the power.

I have never been doom and gloom until now. The a Democrat party is now left of Lenin. The will control all branches in the near future and I am afraid it will not stop with assault rifles.

Tungsten said:

I see what you did there.



As far as overall confiscation: If you aren't in the 80% game at this point, then you need to reorient your mindset. (That is for everyone, not directed at you Sirex)

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80% game? I have no idear what you are talking about good sir.

Sirex said:

80% game? I have no idear what you are talking about good sir.

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Hint #1: 80% blank.

ironpony said:

Hint #1: 80% blank.

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As in "When anyone asks me about 80%s I just give them a 100% blank stare"?

Muleskinner said:

Only if people chose to let it happen...many will fight, many will be cowards and let their fellow countrymen fight and die ...

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Like most other Western countries, it's likely to start as a "voluntary" turn in or buy back. Seeing very little compliance it will proceed to mandatory then maybe possession becomes illegal.

At some point nothing is going to stop the plans without a massive display of civil disobedience

Go 80% now....that fight's coming soon. Oh, wait till I get my stash

If my government is going to turn me into a felon for keeping my own legally obtained property... all bets are off. As they say, they can only hang you once.

If you are willing to lose everything except for your 80%’s, you’ve already lost.

Allen65 said:

As in "When anyone asks me about 80%s I just give them a 100% blank stare"?

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brucaru said:

If you are willing to lose everything except for your 80%’s, you’ve already lost.

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Gary Willis, if you have to google his name, you have already lost.





I believe there will be a non-registered firearm ban before a full ban, which will be soon after.

A positive that I keep in mind - most of our government is inept, so what they may plan to enact is likely to fail.

A negative that gets short shrift - even people on "the right" are losing their spine, falling under the spell of tv and social media brainwashing, and being intellectually lazy about what the Second Amendment truly means and why it was put there by brilliant men.

Those are the people I focus on taking to task - the ones giving ground and equivocating while claiming to be on "our side".

The majority of lefties have childlike intellects and can't be reasoned with. The hay to be made is with everyone else who can be allies in opposition.

Those folks around us that start to say things like "nobody really needs a <fill in the blank>" need us to set them right if there's any chance to stem the anti-gun tide.

Mr. B said:

A positive that I keep in mind - most of our government is inept, so what they may plan to enact is likely to fail.

A negative that gets short shrift - even people on "the right" are losing their spine, falling under the spell of tv and social media brainwashing, and being intellectually lazy about what the Second Amendment truly means and why it was put there by brilliant men.

Those are the people I focus on taking to task - the ones giving ground and equivocating while claiming to be on "our side".

The majority of lefties have childlike intellects and can't be reasoned with. The hay to be made is with everyone else who can be allies in opposition.

Those folks around us that start to say things like "nobody really needs a <fill in the blank>" need us to set them right if there's any chance to stem the anti-gun tide.

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Hell, there will be some bravado-filled people on forums like this that will lose their spine.
However I agree that our government is extremely inept and certainly doesn't have the resources to get too aggressive in any radical enforcement

brucaru said:

If you are willing to lose everything except for your 80%’s, you’ve already lost.

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First, I haven't seen anyone state they're willing to "lose everything" except them.

I guess you don't understand that 80%s
--keeps one armed and in the fight
--can be a large and potent form of civil disobedience

Both of which serve the initial battle. Your assessment is false.

I get the civil disobedience. But how does the 80% keep you in the fight unless the rest of your collection has been confiscated. Why not fight with that which is our God given right.