Accidental/Negligent Discharge

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  • Nanook

    F-notso-NG-anymore
    While shooting a Bullseye match in the cold with M9/92FS, I had a whoopsie. The command to load had been given and due to the larger grip size and some wrist/hand problems, I normally hold the pistol just over the bench and pointed downrange towards my target. My standard practice during this type of shooting ONLY is to pull and hold the trigger back, insert the mag, then drop the slide. (Great for finely tuned match 1911s that may be getting worn as well.) When the fire command is given for 50yd strings or the 25yd target turns, I put the sights where they need to be, ease the trigger forward to reset and ease it towards me to fire. Keep the sights aligned and push the muzzle back towards the X ring, reset trigger, rinse, repeat. Problem was it was pretty f'ing cold and things weren't normal. Load the mag on command, drop the slide, shake the hand a few seconds later and fling a bullet downrange. Nothing hurt/damaged but I did throw away a possible 10 points and didn't pick up a 'leg' medal that match.

    A few years earlier in a facility that kept Marines on their posts 24/7, they have a bunkroom/lounge/armory that shared a wall with my former workspace. That night's Jarhead duty section was having refresher training on rapid presentation and firing of their pistols. They had made the area clear and safe with no live ammo in the immediate area, mags, or weapon - and was verified by multiple folks before they started. No problem, right? After the training was completed, which included multiple rapid draw - on target - on trigger - bang bang - assess cycles, the folks heading out for the next watch equipped up at the armory. Standard procedure is Condition 1 sidearms in holsters. After kitting up, they were inspected on their way out of their spaces when one of the newer guys asked a question on the procedure. The Marine that gave the training said something like "it goes just like this" as he drew, aimed, and fired through the wall into my space. Fortunately, he realized the problem and didn't fire twice and even more fortunately, the technician had walked away from the workbench a few minutes earlier. The bullet came through the wall, pierced a stainless steel sheet that protected the sheetrock from our stuff, and came to a stop in the equipment frame they guy was working on.

    I highly, highly recommend that one room in your house be kept clear of live ammo at all times. That is where the maintenance, trigger work, dry firing, etc ought to be done.
     

    PJDiesel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 18, 2011
    17,603
    Some of us newbies are reading this and learning lessons from the others, so don't be ashamed.

    Right on. Best way to learn is from a mistake, preferably someone eles's and even more preferable is if no one dies in the process.

    I've never had an ND indoor or out. I only load/unload in one place and never anywhere else (indoors).
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,466
    MoCo
    While shooting a Bullseye match in the cold with M9/92FS, I had a whoopsie. The command to load had been given and due to the larger grip size and some wrist/hand problems, I normally hold the pistol just over the bench and pointed downrange towards my target. My standard practice during this type of shooting ONLY is to pull and hold the trigger back, insert the mag, then drop the slide. (Great for finely tuned match 1911s that may be getting worn as well.) When the fire command is given for 50yd strings or the 25yd target turns, I put the sights where they need to be, ease the trigger forward to reset and ease it towards me to fire. Keep the sights aligned and push the muzzle back towards the X ring, reset trigger, rinse, repeat. Problem was it was pretty f'ing cold and things weren't normal. Load the mag on command, drop the slide, shake the hand a few seconds later and fling a bullet downrange. Nothing hurt/damaged but I did throw away a possible 10 points and didn't pick up a 'leg' medal that match.

    A few years earlier in a facility that kept Marines on their posts 24/7, they have a bunkroom/lounge/armory that shared a wall with my former workspace. That night's Jarhead duty section was having refresher training on rapid presentation and firing of their pistols. They had made the area clear and safe with no live ammo in the immediate area, mags, or weapon - and was verified by multiple folks before they started. No problem, right? After the training was completed, which included multiple rapid draw - on target - on trigger - bang bang - assess cycles, the folks heading out for the next watch equipped up at the armory. Standard procedure is Condition 1 sidearms in holsters. After kitting up, they were inspected on their way out of their spaces when one of the newer guys asked a question on the procedure. The Marine that gave the training said something like "it goes just like this" as he drew, aimed, and fired through the wall into my space. Fortunately, he realized the problem and didn't fire twice and even more fortunately, the technician had walked away from the workbench a few minutes earlier. The bullet came through the wall, pierced a stainless steel sheet that protected the sheetrock from our stuff, and came to a stop in the equipment frame they guy was working on.

    I highly, highly recommend that one room in your house be kept clear of live ammo at all times. That is where the maintenance, trigger work, dry firing, etc ought to be done.
    I am no spring chicken, but this is the first time I ever heard of even having a finger inside the trigger guard at any time other than after the gun is brought on target, let alone touching the trigger.

    Would you enlighten me about this practice...when is it used, who teaches it, etc.?
     

    ChannelCat

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Negligent
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    Holy Shiite! And I thought fishing accidents were gristly!
     

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    ChannelCat

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    To answer the question, no I have not. Pop trained me at 6 years old about gun safety, and no, not the bull$hit high jacked left wing definition either. Right after "a gun is always loaded" came "and if I ever catch you in this gun cabinet without me being around, I'll whop your ass!". I take guns very seriously, and realize that I could have a negligent discharge.
     

    Silverlax

    Active Member
    Nov 13, 2014
    518
    Eastern Shore
    I witnessed two negligent. One was at a mason Dixon sniper series match. Guy was done shooting and loaded a round into the chamber and sent it while trying to clear it. Rifle was 30degrees in the air and took a long ride into a residential community. No one was hurt thank God.

    The other, I was hog hunting and witnessed my uncle’s buddy unload the rifle then proceed to bird hunt with it. Well not so much. He unloaded then racked another round and then pointed up in the air and pulled the trigger. Definitely woke the guide up.
     

    Nanook

    F-notso-NG-anymore
    Would you enlighten me about this practice...when is it used, who teaches it, etc.?

    While shooting a Bullseye match...My standard practice during this type of shooting ONLY is to pull and hold the trigger back, insert the mag, then drop the slide.

    Johnny, this is what I use when shooting a Bullseye pistol match or practice. Bullseye (NRA Precision Pistol) is shot with one hand only, normally at distances of 50yd and 25yd. The alternative and highly recommended method of loading is to take your nonfiring hand and form a 'gun shape' with the thumb and pointer finger. Muzzle pointed downrange, insert mag, hold the hammer down with the thumb and use the fingertip to drop the slide stop. Then slowly release pressure with the hammer thumb to make sure it doesn't slam forward and fire. This can happen with lightened, polished, and lubed innards after thousands and thousands of rounds. Both methods are only done when on the firing line, eye and ear protection on, with active trigger pulling to follow within 10 seconds or so.

    The 5 fundamentals of shooting like this are stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control, and breathing. When I step to the 25yd line for "timed" (5 round/20 sec) or "rapid" fire (5 round/10 sec), the words "you may handle your firearm" are normally said. The turning targets are still facing the shooters for a few more seconds after being repaired so I instantly assume my firing stance with the feet, seat the pistol (slide back) in my hand, and bring it up to check my natural point of aim. Adjust either if needed, then rest the pistol to the bench to wait the load command while doing deep yoga breathing, without moving either feet or grip until two series of 5 rounds have been fired. From then on, all I have to worry about are 'equal light, equal height' with front sight focus and smoothly moving the trigger to the rear until it goes bang.

    My stance is feet about shoulder width apart, firing hand foot well forward of the other forming an obtuse angle, so it is harder for me to do the two-hand thing as I don't bend well anymore. With the M9/92FS, when the backstrap of the pistol is firmly seated into the 'non-squishy' part of my palm, my finger has a heck of hard time cleanly and smoothly taking the slack out. By holding the trigger to the rear and loading, I only need enough forward movement to reset the trigger when it is time to fire.

    While I don't want to disrupt the thread, all I will say else on this is PLEASE practice this with a clear and safe firearm if anybody tries this. It is normally very safe but has an extremely limited practical use. /THREADJACK
     

    KJackson

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 3, 2017
    8,614
    Carroll County
    I had one (ND) outside over 25 years ago. I was crossing a creek while carrying a friend's folding Ruger 10/22. I slipped and since I wasn't practicing good finger positioning, I sent a round upwards at about a 45 degree angle. Thankfully we were out in the middle of nowhere so the changes of it hitting someone were small.

    My friend had one (AD, I guess) while target practicing with his 8MM Mauser. As he pushed the bolt forward to load the round, it went off. Left a big ol' bruise on the meaty part of his thumb and the palm of his hand. The bullet lodged in the barrel and he was able to remove it later.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    We at a USPSA match many years ago at Quantico. A Marine Reserve unit was doing pistol quals on the 25/50 yard range. We are off to the side at the berms.

    "This exercise is DRY FIRE only." "Do not load a magazine" "Ready on the right, ready on the left, ready on the firing line DRY FIRE ONLY" "Commence DRY FIRE ONLY" BANG "CEASE FIRE, CEASE FIRE"

    We had a bit of a laugh.
     

    PJS

    Heavy
    Feb 4, 2014
    167
    Baltimore
    At home? No.

    At the range? Yes. But we were pointed downrange, so end result was OK. Pulled the trigger before sights were on target.

    I have picked up my gun to put it in my holster when getting ready to leave, and put my finger inside the trigger guard. I put the gun down, walk away, walk back, and start the process again.
     

    Robertjeter

    Active Member
    May 11, 2018
    460
    Eastern Shore, MD
    Not a ND per se, but had a pretty delayed hang fire waterfowl hunting once. Scared the shit out of me. Ended up shooting the water 10 feet in front of the blind about 5 seconds after I pulled the trigger instead of the bird. Not fun when they go bang unexpectedly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    MackM

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 20, 2018
    86
    One reason I like a decocking lever (on both our Bersa handguns), is that you no longer have to hold the hammer as you press the trigger and HOPEFULLY slowly lower that hammer. Wish Walther and other mfrs built guns with them.
    Ref accidental discharges, my mom was showing a neighbor "her" 22 pistol and popped a round into the bed. She said dad walked into the bedroom from the living room, white faced, saw nobody was hurt, walked over and took the gun from mom's hand, and left the room. I think he was too angry to form words. She never saw the gun again.
     

    delaware_export

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 10, 2018
    3,144
    Nearest thing since I’ve been shooting was one of THOSE m700 things taking off the safety attempting to shoot a deer. Bang. Finger was clear of triggger. Well clear. Tried to figure out what happened the first time, and it happened again. As soon as the safety was clicked off, bang! That was 2x, about 30min apart.

    A couple weeks ago, I witnessed one at a public skeet range. A young guy, we think with a brand new and unfamiliar gun, loaded 2 for a double. Station 2, Had the gun at low position, waist high, pointed at trap house. As he went to toggle the safety, he immediately hit the trigger. The gun was a B, I think beretta ?a400? With the safety in front of the trigger, and he just moved from safety to trigger and pulled. In one move.

    Same guy also kept hitting the mag disconnect when loading. Second shell didn’t feed on doubles.
     

    WildWeasel

    Active Member
    Mar 31, 2019
    468
    MI>FL>MD
    I put a .22 into the pillar of my house on the front porch once... Removed the mag and went to snap the trigger. Turns out there was 1 more round in it than I thought...
     

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