General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems RM-277

CrazySanMan · Oct 17, 2019

This Exotic Bullpup Rifle Is Competing To Replace The Army's M4 Carbines And M249 SAWs
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30472/this-exotic-bullpup-rifle-is-competing-to-replace-the-armys-m4-carbines-and-m249-saws

General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GD-OTS) first unveiled its RM277 small arms line at the Association of the U.S. Army's main annual convention in Washington, D.C., which opened on Oct. 14, 2019, and wrapped up today. The Firearms Blog was first to report the guns' designation, as well as other details about the particular features of the infantry rifle and automatic rifle variants that have emerged so far. However, GD-OTS has been relatively tight-lipped about the weapons, which are competing in the Army's Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) program, which aims to replace the service's 5.56mm M4 carbines and M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW). The company told The Firearms Blog that its policy is not to issue formal press releases regarding systems taking part in "an active, open competition."

As noted, the basic design of both RM277 variants is a bullpup with the action, along with the magazine, situated all the way to the rear. They both also feature a large top-mounted rail for optics, night and thermal vision systems, and other accessories. There are back up sights offset to the side and there appear to be attachment points for additional rails on the sides and underneath the forend handguard.

The automatic rifle variant, which has a folding bipod, has a slightly longer barrel than the rifle version, but we don't yet know the exact dimensions of either model. The barrel on the automatic rifle version, intended for more sustained fire, is clearly fluted to reduce weight and help it cool faster. It is possible the one in the basic rifle design is, as well, and it is just not visible.

Both guns fire a 6.8mm round, with a polymer case rather than a brass one to keep weight down, that ammunition maker True Velocity developed for the Army. All of the NGSW entrants will have to be chambered in this caliber. 6.8mm is roughly .277 caliber, which is the origin of the "277" in the RM277 designation.

Most interestingly, both guns use a novel "gas and recoil-operated, impulse averaged, air-cooled" operating mechanism, according to The Firearms Blog. It's not entirely clear how the guns function, but the description suggests that they use a combination of physical energy from firing a round, as well as propellant gas siphoned off as the bullet travels down the barrel, to cycle the action. By comparison, the U.S. Army's standard M4 carbine uses propellant gas alone.

A promotional video below shows that the barrel on the RM277 versions moves back and forth during firing, which is indicative of so-called "long recoil" designs. Though the basic concept of a long-recoil action has been around for decades, they have become increasingly rare and pairing it together with a gas system would be very unusual.

In principle, using a combination of long-recoil and gas-operated action could help mitigate felt recoil, which would improve accuracy, even during fully automatic fire. This could also help keep weight down, by minimizing the force firing each round exerts on the weapon and, in turn, reducing the need for more robust recoil system components. Combining all of this will a bullpup configuration could also ensure maximum barrel length without needing to dramatically increase the overall length of the weapon to accommodate this operating mechanism, as well.

Todd S · Oct 17, 2019

Is this MD compliant?

Rambler · Oct 17, 2019

This was rolled out at the AUSA convention in DC. I did not go this year. But, every time I have attended there are all kinds of cool already in-use as well as proposed items ranging from socks and underwear to vehicles and weapons. A colleague of mine refers to it as the "Kill-Tech Convention"

Lloyd · Oct 17, 2019

Interesting. I wonder if that is a sound suppressor or just a flash suppressor?

r3t1awr3yd · Oct 17, 2019

Lloyd said:
Interesting. I wonder if that is a sound suppressor or just a flash suppressor?

"In the photo above we can see both weapons in FDE, both equipped with suppressors from another of General Dynamics’ partners, Delta P design, known for their innovative designs including 3D printed cans. The suppressor appears to use their flow through design. General Dynamics note that the suppressor will last the life of the barrel it is mounted on and that the design “minimizes flash and reduces sound levels to less than the requirement”. They also confirm that their prototypes are within the US Army’s weight requirements."

smokey · Oct 17, 2019

Interesting brass on that new 6.8 cartridge. Looks like it's got just about no neck on it whatsoever.

Rambler · Oct 17, 2019

The bullet looks like it may be heat sealed into the what there is of the neck. Assuming the case to not be as malleable as brass or at least not in the same way, I am guessing the neck region is thicker than in a brass cartridge and only of a length/taper sufficient for feeding and sealing.

MigraineMan · Oct 17, 2019

Ammunition info.

gforce · Oct 17, 2019

Looks interesting, is the Army planning on replacing 556 with 6.8? Secondly why is a bull pup better for an issued rifle, wouldn't length of pull be an issue since people are not uniformly sized?

WildWeasel · Oct 17, 2019

Eh... Looks cool. But the word 'novel' was thrown out there, and right now I'd agree with it. Lots of potential gimmicks like the polymer cases, the suppressor setup, and recoil system. Sure it could be the service rifle for the next 40 years, but if it's not, what's the cost to switch to an expensive and trash weapon system (*cough* F35...) only to realize it's not all its hyped to be. There are several countries that have/had bullpups and switched/are switching/are looking to switch back to 'traditional style' weapons.

Don't get me wrong, we need weapon and technology advancements and innovations for civilians and military alike at all levels. It just needs to be done exceptionally well for our troops and our tax bills...

jcutonilli · Oct 17, 2019

gforce said:
Looks interesting, is the Army planning on replacing 556 with 6.8? Secondly why is a bull pup better for an issued rifle, wouldn't length of pull be an issue since people are not uniformly sized?

I am not sure the length of pull is that much of an issue. The biggest problem with a bullpup is the lack of ambidexterity. The case is ejected into the face of a left handed shooter. You may be able to change it but there are occasions where off side shooting is advantageous for the moment and then need to switch back.

woodline · Oct 17, 2019

Bullpup design makes a lot of sense in that you need more barrel length to get the hilariously overpowered cartridge up over 3000fps (3100fps, 3400fps? I forget what the req is). It makes no sense in that the design is not really ambidextrous, they are very loud due to the action reciprocating below your ear and conducting noise via your jawbone, the ergonomics are inferior to an AR (monopod. Just saying), it is a heavy feller, and the ammo is bulky and still heavier than 5.56. Hope the barrels are cheap and easily swapped, because that cartridge is going to be a barrel burner. I can't wait to see how the next gen rifle they pick does in CQB and 300 meter and in engagements. The troop commentary is going to be hilarious. I assume they will only let 50+ year old CSMs from TRADOC run it in trials, because they are the only people who could possibly thing that much green weenie is a good idea.

The only part of that offering that I want anything to do with is the Brevis suppressor. I want to pick up one of those up eventually in 5.56. They aren't super quiet but I still like how they balance on a rifle.

ToolAA · Oct 17, 2019

So let me ask a very dumb question....

If the Army rejects this M-277 design, does that mean it’s NOT considered a “Weapon of War”. I just want make sure I’m clear before I build one.

calicojack · Oct 17, 2019

ToolAA said:
So let me ask a very dumb question....

If the Army rejects this M-277 design, does that mean it’s NOT considered a “Weapon of War”. I just want make sure I’m clear before I build one.

Or if they do accept it, then the AR is no longer a weapon of war.

K31 · Oct 17, 2019

calicojack said:
Or if they do accept it, then the AR is no longer a weapon of war.

Still used by the Israelis, the British...

K31 · Oct 17, 2019

Todd S said:
Is this MD compliant?

Is it Clandestine compliant?

ToolAA · Oct 17, 2019

calicojack said:
Or if they do accept it, then the AR is no longer a weapon of war.

I like the way you think.

Pinecone · Oct 18, 2019

gforce said:
Looks interesting, is the Army planning on replacing 556 with 6.8? Secondly why is a bull pup better for an issued rifle, wouldn't length of pull be an issue since people are not uniformly sized?

Also the prevalence of body armor in many cases means a MUCH shorter length of pull is required.

tallen702 · Oct 18, 2019

fbi_surveillance_van said:
it is a heavy feller, and the ammo is bulky and still heavier than 5.56.

No, it's not. Everything I've read on the LSAT and NGSW trials points to the firearms and the rounds being less heavy. That's the whole point of it. They wanted to give soldiers in the field the ability to carry more ammo for the same poundage which the LSAT trials achieved with the 6.8 round before they ceased testing to move on to the NGSW program.

In regards to the General Dynamics decision to go with a bullpup, the controls and charging handle are ambidextrous and the spent cases are forward-ejecting despite the port being on the side. The reason they went with the 6.8 round was to get much greater accuracy at distance (past the 300m mark that the M4 had to qualify at) and give greater "oomf" to the round at range given the greater use of body armor by belligerents in modern warfare.

Sig and Textron also have offered up prototypes based heavily on the lessons learned from the LSAT testing.

Occam · Oct 18, 2019

K31 said:
Still used by the Israelis, the British...

Well, sure. But there are also organized military entities in some, er, remote areas ... that still use sharpened sticks and bows.

I am always entertained by the “it was only meant to give you the right to a musket” logical rabbit hole those folks go down, sometimes. That was a for-SURE weapon of war at the time, and no mistaking.

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