VCDL-Update-Problem with VSP database for CHL Holders

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    This just received from VCDL. I do not know how non resident permits are affected by this backlog. Since VSP does the data entry for NR permits and not the courts, perhaps NR permits are not affected. But that's just a guess.

    I have sent an email to VCDL President Phil Van Cleave to see if he knows if this backlog affects NR permit holders as well.

    Will report back


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not yet a Virginia Citizens Defense League member? Join VCDL at: https://vcdl.org/join
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    VCDL's calendar: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    VA-ALERT archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/727/=now
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------


    THE PROBLEM

    I was interviewed a couple of weeks ago about an ongoing issue with the Virginia State Police (VSP) database having CHP holder information that is NOT being updated promptly.

    This is a real problem here in Virginia, but is probably worse if you travel out of state and are depending on reciprocity to allow you to carry.

    The issue is that the VSP is behind on entering the information on tens of thousands of Virginia CHP holders (upwards of 60,000 at one point). If you recently renewed or are a new CHP holder, the VSP database could show your permit has expired or that you don't have a permit at all, respectively.

    If the police officer that stopped you trusts that database more than he trusts the CHP he's actually holding in his hand, you could be falsely arrested and charged with a concealed weapon violation!

    If you are out of state, I'd say the odds of being arrested go up considerably!

    This problem reared its ugly head during the end of the General Assembly session this year, but it was supposed to be fixed long before now. The fix involved getting the data directly from the Virginia Supreme Court in a format that the VSP could upload directly into their computers.

    Currently the information is being retyped into the VSP computers, which slows things down dramatically and increases the odds that the data will have some typographical mistakes in it. For example, if the operator mistypes your name, your information will not show up when the database is searched by name.


    WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BY VCDL

    Effective immediately the VSP needs to stop sharing information on permit holders with law enforcement officers until such time as the information is up-to-date and is correct. (Why disseminate information that cannot be trusted to be accurate?) To attempt to affect this change I will be contacting the VSP and lawmakers.

    I will also see if I can get an official document from VSP on VSP letterhead that we can carry instead stating that the CHP database is not up-to-date and the information could be incorrect.

    We could also push the Circuit Court Clerks to send a letter with all new and renewed CHPs similar to the letter in the article below. That letter is from the Prince William County Clerk, Jacqueline C. Smith. Kudos for being proactive, Ms. Smith!


    WHAT YOU CAN DO TO PROTECT YOURSELF IN THE MEANTIME

    While far from perfect, I suggest that you print out the following article DIRECTLY FROM WJLA'S WEBSITE and keep it with you until we can find a better solution.

    https://wjla.com/news/local/virginia-backlog-concealed-handgun-permits-database

    Here is the article for your convenience:

    Virginia has a months-long backlog in its concealed handgun permits database Victoria Sanchez/ABC7

    More than 400,000 Virginians have legal, concealed handgun permits, but for residents with a new or recently renewed permit, the state system that tracks the documents might not have them in it at all.

    “I think it’s a huge problem,” said Philip VanCleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League.

    VanCleave first heard about the Virginia State Police backlog in January.

    “As of earlier this year, there were something like 60,000 permit holders whose information had not been entered in the State Police database,” he said.

    Virginia State Police acknowledged the backlog but did not say how many still needed to be entered into the system. The information including the permittee’s name, address, and date of birth need to be added to the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN). In 2017, staff at the Virginia State Police Firearms Transaction Center manually entered 54,584 permits into the system.

    “The Department is also in the final stages of going live with a new digital interface system through the Virginia Supreme Court that will allow circuit court clerks to automatically upload permits into VCIN. This will significantly expedite the transition process,” a statement from the Virginia State Police said.

    Until the Firearms Transaction Center catches up, at least one county is warning permit holders there could be a problem. The Office of the Clerk of the Circuit Court in Prince William County is mailing out a notice with permits it issued to residents.

    “We have been informed that the State Police is 4-6 months behind in updating Concealed Handgun Permits in their systems. This has resulted in situations where the citizen produces an apparently valid permit for law enforcement but when the officer looks up the permit in the State Police system, it shows as expired or non-existent,” the note stated.

    The notice also told permittees to tell law enforcement officers to contact the court to confirm the validity of permits if they do not appear in the state system.

    “I carry mine right with my license,” Scott Wahl said.

    Wahl is with 50 West Armory and first got his concealed handgun permit two decades ago. He was surprised to find out that permit holders like him could potentially be seen as someone illegally carrying a firearm because of the outdated database.

    “The last thing you want to do is have a firearm that you’re legally carrying and have it escalate into something it’s not,” he said.

    “Boy, that would be devastating to somebody who has a perfect and clean record, who’s done everything they can to stay within the right side of the law only to be caught up because of a mistake on the part of the police. Truly unacceptable,” VanCleave said.

    Carrying a concealed handgun without a permit could result in a Class 1 misdemeanor for the first offense. A second violation could be punishable as a Class 6 felony. However for permit holders, Virginia code states, “It shall be an affirmative defense to a violation of clause (i) regarding a handgun, that a person had been issued, at the time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit.”

    Wahl said permittees should always have the card-like document with them while they are carrying a concealed weapon. Although it’s not required in the state of Virginia, if he is pulled over for a traffic stop, he informs the officer he is carrying a weapon and has a legal permit.

    “I would be surprised if you had your permit on you, if [the police] would not look at that as a valid permit,” he said.


    -------------------------------------------
    ***************************************************************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org [http://www.vcdl.org/]
    ***************************************************************************
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Spoke to PVC. To the best of his knowledge, non resident permits are not affected as VSP does the days entry themselves, unlike resident permits which are handled by the Court clerks
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Six to EIGHT months for non resident renewal is what they are telling people. 4-6 months for resident, 6-8 for non resident -- including renewal. That is months. The website says 3-6 months. Two seperate live people said this is not accurate and it is six months minimum currently.

    You are welcome to call and ask yourself at Va state police -804-674-2676
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Spoke to PVC. To the best of his knowledge, non resident permits are not affected as VSP does the days entry themselves, unlike resident permits which are handled by the Court clerks

    swinokur, Are you in process? they told me 6-8 months. If so please let us know. Website currently says 3-6 months for non-resident which is taking longer than resident according to va state police. i ordered up my forms last week since I'd rather get the physical FD-258 fingerprint card as DC will do that for free to send to Va if you are a DC resident. I try and post when I put it in the mail to them and when I get it back.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    No I am not. I called Phil just to get info that I could then post here.

    I was interested because VCDL was reporting via their newsletter long data entry times by County Court clerks causing a possible error when VA LE checked the VSP data base for permits, causing possible errors in accuracy. Ie., Info saying you were expired when you were not, etc.

    VA statute requires resident permits be issued in 45 days by court clerks. Good thing is if not issued in 45 days, your app becomes your permit

    Does not apply to non resident permits unfortunately
     

    rouchna

    Defund the ATF
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 25, 2009
    5,951
    Virginia
    Six to EIGHT months for non resident renewal is what they are telling people. 4-6 months for resident, 6-8 for non resident -- including renewal. That is months. The website says 3-6 months. Two seperate live people said this is not accurate and it is six months minimum currently.

    You are welcome to call and ask yourself at Va state police -804-674-2676

    45 Days for residents and if it is not issued within that time, your application becomes your permit.

    No I am not. I called Phil just to get info that I could then post here.

    I was interested because VCDL was reporting via their newsletter long data entry times by County Court clerks causing a possible error when VA LE checked the VSP data base for permits, causing possible errors in accuracy. Ie., Info saying you were expired when you were not, etc.

    VA statute requires resident permits be issued in 45 days by court clerks. Good thing is if not issued in 45 days, your app becomes your permit

    Does not apply to non resident permits unfortunately

    EDIT: Swinokur beat me to it.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    I can’t recall what if anything the statutes say about residents carrying on a non resident permit but I wouldn’t advertise it
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,915
    Messages
    7,258,419
    Members
    33,348
    Latest member
    Eric_Hehl

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom