41P was published 1/15/16
- Thread starter Sundazes
- Start date
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- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
And the rule goes into effect on July 13, 2016 just for those that do not know it is 180 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.
Double check the math before relying on the July 13, 2016 date.
Double check the math before relying on the July 13, 2016 date.
antco
Ultimate Member
Very nice-
That should greatly speed up purchase to possession times for MD folks as you can now zoom right past MSP.
That should greatly speed up purchase to possession times for MD folks as you can now zoom right past MSP.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
MSP????
Who are they?
And what do they have to do with my purchases?????
Trust did that already.
Who are they?
And what do they have to do with my purchases?????
Trust did that already.
antco
Ultimate Member
Ah, forgot about that... Wasn't thinking.
Hawkeye
The Leatherstocking
- Jan 29, 2009
- 3,971
Yes.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Yes it is, and I believe the Form 1 or Form 4 application has to be in Submitted/In Process status prior to July 13th for it to avoid the requirements of Rule 41P. Hoping to get my last bunch of Form 1 applications done this weekend.
Just got this e mail from the trust firm I used.
ATF 41F Will Have Little Affect Thanks to Efforts of the Firearms Industry
Our friends at Silencer Shop of Austin, Texas just announced their plans to minimize the effects of ATF 41F--the new rules for registering NFA firearms by the Obama Administration starting July 13. Many feared 41F would create burdensome red tape and inconveniences for obtaining new NFA firearms. The recent announcement by Silencer Shop, however, reveals just how much private industry will be a step ahead of ATF. We predict 41F could have little or no effect on NFA firearms transfers.
Prior to this announcement, Arsenal Attorneys had been privy to these plans and observed just how much the firearms industry had succeeded in preventing the worst parts of 41F. For example, ATF agreed to allow anyone, including a gun dealer, to perform fingerprinting rather than requiring fingerprinting by law enforcement. Further, ATF agreed to accept fingerprints and photographs electronically.
Once 41F had been finalized, Silencer Shop then made a tremendous investment to prepare computer kiosks for each of its hundreds of affiliated gun dealers across the country. The kiosks can be used to complete the fingerprinting and photographs required by 41F at the point of sale without additional delays or burdens. Read our latest blog at this link to learn more.
In parallel with these developments, Arsenal Attorneys updated our Arsenal Gun Trust design to reduce the impact of 41F. For example, we now provide clients customized forms to temporarily remove people from their trusts when an application for a new NFA firearm is submitted. Therefore, the people temporarily removed from a trust will not be subject to 41F, even if they're later re-added to the trust. Additionally our new design provides you and your successors important guidance about 41F and many other changes in ATF policy that have recently occurred.
If you are a gun dealer, we encourage you to prepare for 41F so it will cause little or no inconvenience for your customers. You can organize your own method to fingerprint and photograph your customers at the point of sale. Your customers will appreciate your proactive customer service. If you or your customers have questions about 41F and trusts, contact Arsenal Attorneys.
ATF 41F Will Have Little Affect Thanks to Efforts of the Firearms Industry
Our friends at Silencer Shop of Austin, Texas just announced their plans to minimize the effects of ATF 41F--the new rules for registering NFA firearms by the Obama Administration starting July 13. Many feared 41F would create burdensome red tape and inconveniences for obtaining new NFA firearms. The recent announcement by Silencer Shop, however, reveals just how much private industry will be a step ahead of ATF. We predict 41F could have little or no effect on NFA firearms transfers.
Prior to this announcement, Arsenal Attorneys had been privy to these plans and observed just how much the firearms industry had succeeded in preventing the worst parts of 41F. For example, ATF agreed to allow anyone, including a gun dealer, to perform fingerprinting rather than requiring fingerprinting by law enforcement. Further, ATF agreed to accept fingerprints and photographs electronically.
Once 41F had been finalized, Silencer Shop then made a tremendous investment to prepare computer kiosks for each of its hundreds of affiliated gun dealers across the country. The kiosks can be used to complete the fingerprinting and photographs required by 41F at the point of sale without additional delays or burdens. Read our latest blog at this link to learn more.
In parallel with these developments, Arsenal Attorneys updated our Arsenal Gun Trust design to reduce the impact of 41F. For example, we now provide clients customized forms to temporarily remove people from their trusts when an application for a new NFA firearm is submitted. Therefore, the people temporarily removed from a trust will not be subject to 41F, even if they're later re-added to the trust. Additionally our new design provides you and your successors important guidance about 41F and many other changes in ATF policy that have recently occurred.
If you are a gun dealer, we encourage you to prepare for 41F so it will cause little or no inconvenience for your customers. You can organize your own method to fingerprint and photograph your customers at the point of sale. Your customers will appreciate your proactive customer service. If you or your customers have questions about 41F and trusts, contact Arsenal Attorneys.
blksniper2000
certified lurker
a little bit more good news
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
It still requires fingerprints and mugshots.They just make it easier to have the anal cavity search performed.
Then, every time a new NFA item is purchased, the trust needs to be amended and re-scanned to remove the other trustees. Then, after the purchase goes through, the trust needs to be amended again to add those trustees back. At what point can the trust be amended to add those trustees back to it? Once the Form 1 or Form 4 has been submitted, or does the Grantor have to wait until the new tax stamp is granted? What happens if the Grantor gets hit by a bus during this time period? Not a worry if the only worry in one's life is obtaining NFA items and they do not care where those items end up upon their passing on to the promised land.
Let's hope that Trump is elected and he repeals Rule 41P.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
What exactly is involved in the removal/addition of trusties?
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Usually, the trustee being removed is sent notice of said removal. Granted, the trust document is controlling on this, so if there are any provisions in it (e.g., how to provide notice, whether cause is needed to remove/replace a trustee, how a new trustee can be appointed), then they need to be followed.
Thing is, how is the ATF going to know about the removal of the trustees if the trustees are merely sent notice? Either the notice needs to be sent to the ATF along with the trust, or an amendment needs to be made to the trust and the trust re-scanned.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,963
Thanks. I'm pretty much done with NFAs for now, but you never know what new thingy might pop up in the future.
I don't know about repealing 41p. For those purchasing as an individual, the process will be much easier. In areas where the CLEO refused to sign, individuals will now be able to purchase.
The major reasons I chose a trust was to avoid the CLEO sign off and the ability to efile.
I am mostly concerned with being able to efile. If the ATF will allow us to upload pictures and prints, the change will be minimal.
If the CLEO sign off and efile go away then the only reason to use a trust is multiple owners/access to items and/or detailed instructions for thier disposition after your death.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
I hate having to submit fingerprints and mugshots as if I am criminal. Main reason I am not applying for the HQL ever. I doubt there will be anything new coming out that I will absolutely not be able to live without. I already own more stuff because of FSA2013 and Rule 41P that I was merely thinking about buying in the future. My FFL kept mentioning suppressors to me every time I came into the shop during the FSA2013 rush and thereafter. Wasn't really planning on a suppressor. Now, after dinner I am going to sit down and submit Form 1 applications for 5 of them. Never even thought about an SBR or SBS. Barely even knew what they were. Now, I have stamps and lowers for three (3) SBR builds and a shotgun sitting in the safe that I have a Form 1 pending for and a 14" barrel in my FFL's safe waiting for my tax stamp to arrive.
Had an AR-15 and an AR-10 and a handgun prior to FSA2013. Now, it looks like they got together and multiplied like rabbits. Some, I have not even shot yet.
I'll have 5 stamps for suppressors that will probably take me a couple years, maybe a decade, to finish building because their importance level will not be very high on my list of things to do or things to shoot.
RANT OVER. Thanks for listening.
PS - then I hope Trump repeals the unsavory portions of Rule 41P, Congress shows Trump who is boss and repeals the NFA in its entirety, and we get to build machine guns, SBR, SBS, and suppressors to our heart's content.
bobthefisher
Durka ninja
LOL! Thanks fabsroman, that was a funny rant. Funny because it's true!
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Hmm, it sounds like two versions of the trust. One with one trustee, one with all of them. Just date and sign the appropriate one and then the other one, and repeat.
fabsroman
Ultimate Member
Have to remember that a trust needs to be notarized every time it is signed. Minor headache, but that is firearms law nowadays for you.
