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Old January 4th, 2019, 07:52 AM #1
ras_oscar ras_oscar is offline
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.308 precision discussion

I have a gas gun in .308 (AR 10). From other threads on this forum I have concluded that there are limitations on how precise I can expect it to be. Presently I am the weak link and plan to work to close up my groups. I am consistently shooting 8" groups at 100 yards. Once I close that down I plan to move out to 200 yards.

1. How close can I reasonably expect groups at 100 yards to become in order to say I have mastered that distance and have reached the limitations of the firearm?

2. When I move out to 200 yards, would the expected mastery group be 4X the 100 yard number( IE 2"at 100 yards=4" at 200 yards)or something else?

3. I am also considering a .308 bolt gun in the distant future. I don't mind spending for quality but want to get my moneys worth. Any thoughts on the following 3 manufacturers for a long range target (beyond 200 yards) shooter? Savage, Remington 700, Mossberg MVP.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:03 AM #2
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Shooting methodology @ 100yds ? ie Offhand, informal rest, prone, proper benchrest, etc ?

What size groups do you shoot with other rifles you shoot confidently ?
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:09 AM #3
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Not sure where you heard your gas gun might not shoot, but if it's built for precision, it should be fine.

A well built AR-10, properly handled, will shoot about as well as most bolt actions out there. I have seen many of them deliver 1/2 MOA and we've shot some pretty impressive groups at long range with them too, even from a 16" barrel. Maybe some of the guys who brought them to class will chime in.

It's ALL about the quality of the build and having good ammo.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:09 AM #4
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I'd suggest trying as many different brands/weights of ammo as you can find. Some guns are finicky about what they like best. I was getting terrible results with mine at 100 yards off a sand bag until I asked for some help from the experts. Turned out to be mostly ammo related. YMMV
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:11 AM #5
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Regarding ammo, most AR-10 style rifles will want 7.62 x 51 ammo vs .308. M118LR and FGMM 175s have been the most reliable for function and precision.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:36 AM #6
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For bolt rifles, apparently the ones made today are all pretty accurate even at lower price points, the difference comes in fit and finish, action smoothness, etc.

I contemplated Mossberg mvp that takes AR mags, but many say itís got a terribly sloppy action, although very precise.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:44 AM #7
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What is the trigger on your gas gun? Stock, upgraded? There are a lot of factors that affect accuracy and precision. As Ed stated, the rifle may need tuning as well. Give us a little more details, and we may be able to help.

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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:52 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbeam View Post
What is the trigger on your gas gun? Stock, upgraded? There are a lot of factors that affect accuracy and precision. As Ed stated, the rifle may need tuning as well. Give us a little more details, and we may be able to help.

Q
Stock Anderson Am 10, upgraded geissele SSA-E trigger. NIkon P308 scope 4-12x40 on a Nikon M308 scope mount.

I'm shooting from a sitting position (the only position allowed at the range I frequent)

This is my FIRST long gun, I have NO others that I can shoot reliably. I am shooting my own reloads. I can share the recipie if needed.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:53 AM #9
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Depending on ammo, you should be able to shoot around 1-2" at 100 yards with a .308 and most factory ammo and if a precision AR10, as Ed shared, likely .5" group with match ammo.

I am by no means an expert, but I've stayed at the holiday Inn before and willing to help if you are close to Frederick.

My suggestion at this point, is to focus on your form and tighten the AR10 groups up prior to spending anymore money on a new rifle. I would search for all posts from E.Shell as he has forgotten more about long range shooting than most will every know and read them several times over so it sinks in.

I would purchase some Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr bullets and see if that helps. I could be your form, or ammo or bad rifle... we can rule 2 of those out fairly quickly if you have someone else shoot your rifle and purchase the ammo.

Good luck, it is a fun sport, let me know if you are near Frederick and if I can help I'm more than willing.
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Old January 4th, 2019, 08:53 AM #10
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E.Shell said it best and heed his advice.

What I can add is that if you have a well built rifle, you can get sub-MOA with FGMM, even though it may have a $125 barrel that is chambered in 308 on it. But then again when I assembled it, I did lap the upper, so that may have helped somewhat. Granted when the owner of the rifle shot it for the first time, he was seeing 6-8" at 100 yards, because he hasn't shot a rifle for almost 50 years! Let's say this much. The owner of the rifle last shot a M14 in Asia, then was handed a original M16, but received no instruction on how to use it or clean it.

Realistically, I'm in the pursuit of a accurate 308 gas gun build, of which I am already half way done. I've bounced around with barrels so much, I've decided that I'll be going with a 18" Criterion or DMPS SASS barrel for this. I'll also be adding a SLR block to if, because eventually, I'll be getting a can for it too. My goal is 1/2 MOA, but I'll be happy if I make it to 3/4 MOA for this build.

As for gas guns in general, I know numerous AR-15's that were built with non-match parts, that shoot sub-MOA with insane consistency, that it is flat out boring to shoot them, and I know of a few that are chambered in 300BLK...
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