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Old January 10th, 2019, 10:07 AM #61
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Originally Posted by ras_oscar View Post
I don't want to waste valuable time of the members who graciously offer to help me by bringing only my unknown ( to you) reloaded ammo. That's why I am obtaining the recommended chow first.
I like to shoot, you wont be wasting my time, promise.

If you'd like I can bring an AR15 with an adjustable cheek riser that you can try and see if that works better for you before spending $200+. That one shoots under 1" also. I promise you, we will figure this out, keep your head up.


I can bring the following;
  • AR15(white oak upper) shoots 1 MOA easy with adjustable cheek riser
  • 308 bolt gun that shoots 1/2MOA, to try out
  • My current target gun, 6MMBR that we can set up on a really solid platform and doesn't recoil AT ALL
  • RPR in 6.5CM with a kreiger barrel, we can shoot factory loads through it and it will be under 1MOA

I probably have some 175gr FGMM in boxes(i'll have to double check) I can bring if you can't find ammo.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 11:11 AM #62
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Originally Posted by ras_oscar View Post
I don't want to waste valuable time of the members who graciously offer to help me by bringing only my unknown ( to you) reloaded ammo. That's why I am obtaining the recommended chow first.
Well, I am just saying that there is milsurp for .37/round, there is Wolf steel case for .30/round, PMC for about 50/round, and then there is Federal Gold for .80/round. The difference between Wolf and Federal Gold is almost surely not 8" at 100 yrds.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 11:17 AM #63
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....The difference between Wolf and Federal Gold is almost surely not 8" at 100 yrds.
Agreed 100%, but why leave crap ammo in the equation?

Just get known good ammo so that this is at least one thing we KNOW is not influencing the outcome.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 11:59 AM #64
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Originally Posted by E.Shell View Post
Agreed 100%, but why leave crap ammo in the equation?

Just get known good ammo so that this is at least one thing we KNOW is not influencing the outcome.
I just think its throwing good money after bad. Been there, done that. Could be the ammo, but not the most likely.

In the back of my mind I also think: I literally just sent my Nikon P308 back for warranty work because it stopped holding zero after maybe 5-6 mags on my AR10. It was not the mount because I got a Vortex HST on sale, same mount, and have been very happy with it. And by the way, when they sent it back, they put a "55gr" turret on the thing, so evidently the P223 and P308 turrets are interchangeable, lol. Works great, but I am not sure I want to send it back just for that.

So, my prior is that I am deeply suspicious of the Nikon P308 quality control these days. Sad to say. I would not start with expensive ammo, I'd rule out the scope first.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 12:37 PM #65
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Originally Posted by danb View Post
I just think its throwing good money after bad. Been there, done that. Could be the ammo, but not the most likely.

In the back of my mind I also think: I literally just sent my Nikon P308 back for warranty work because it stopped holding zero after maybe 5-6 mags on my AR10. It was not the mount because I got a Vortex HST on sale, same mount, and have been very happy with it. And by the way, when they sent it back, they put a "55gr" turret on the thing, so evidently the P223 and P308 turrets are interchangeable, lol. Works great, but I am not sure I want to send it back just for that.

So, my prior is that I am deeply suspicious of the Nikon P308 quality control these days. Sad to say. I would not start with expensive ammo, I'd rule out the scope first.
Point taken, but Speed3 will sort that out quite quickly.

Let's say that Speed3 gets there and sees the scope is on sideways and the tape isn't holding good. We fix that in three minutes and get almost down to the 3-4 moa Wolf will run and that's all we have.

3-4 MOA is clearly not a BIG problem, but it's still a problem. Even utility grade ARs will usually shoot better. Where do we go next if we are unable to lower the noise floor?

We could make the same case for troubleshooting precision issues with an unmagnified red dot scope...

We are troubleshooting a system and we'll never get below the noise level of the worst component.

In your situation, having known good ammo allowed you to immediately isolate the issue to the platform (my reason). Where you went with that knowledge is another matter. Having a known good scope to swap out would have had you back in action in a few minutes with no more wasted ammo, but if your only available swap-out scope is an unmagnified red dot...
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Old January 10th, 2019, 01:51 PM #66
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Originally Posted by E.Shell View Post
Point taken, but Speed3 will sort that out quite quickly.

Let's say that Speed3 gets there and sees the scope is on sideways and the tape isn't holding good. We fix that in three minutes and get almost down to the 3-4 moa Wolf will run and that's all we have.

3-4 MOA is clearly not a BIG problem, but it's still a problem. Even utility grade ARs will usually shoot better. Where do we go next if we are unable to lower the noise floor?

We could make the same case for troubleshooting precision issues with an unmagnified red dot scope...

We are troubleshooting a system and we'll never get below the noise level of the worst component.

In your situation, having known good ammo allowed you to immediately isolate the issue to the platform (my reason). Where you went with that knowledge is another matter. Having a known good scope to swap out would have had you back in action in a few minutes with no more wasted ammo, but if your only available swap-out scope is an unmagnified red dot...
We are in complete agreement.
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Old January 10th, 2019, 03:08 PM #67
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Project Appleseed would be happy to have you! If you go to a standard meter event you will learn proper positions and NPOA, 6-steps to firing a shot, and get your rifled zeroed. All that will work wonders for you later and tell you what other changes you might want to make to your equipment and ammo, if any. And if you don't have a good rifle for Appleseed, we always have loaners available. We will also have several events this year where we shoot rimfire or centerfire out to 200 meters. And getting a day or 2 of training with 22LR is A LOT cheaper than putting a lot of rounds down range at $1 a round (i.e., FGMM 175gr, my favorite 7.62mm precision round as well) trying to iron things out.
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Old January 11th, 2019, 08:04 AM #68
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I kinda feel like my older brothers are getting me ready for my first date
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Old January 11th, 2019, 08:53 AM #69
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Trim your nose hair and wear clean undies....
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Old January 11th, 2019, 01:40 PM #70
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Trim your pubes and forget the undies....
Fixed it for you
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