45-70 Case Length: Hornady vs. Starline Brass?

j8064 · Jul 15, 2017

Here's a "new one on me" challenge:

On my bench I have some 45-70 Hornady factory cases fired in a Marlin 1895. CombatAK asked me to help him get started on reloading the round. I load 45-70 for my Sharps so no problem. Glad to help! :thumbsup:

All the Hornady cases were resized, cleaned, primed and ready to reload - so I thought. To my surprise, the Hornady cases are too short!

My Starline and PPU 45-70 cases are trimmed to 2.10". These Hornady cases started life at 2.040" -That's a huge difference! And the cases are way too short to be properly crimped with a Lee die set. Neither the seating die or FCD can provide any crimp on the bullet. For my single shot Sharps, crimping is not a big deal, but it's pretty important in a lever action rifle.

Any thoughts or ideas on reloading these Hornady 45-70 cases? I'm stumped.

:shrug:

JAGGUY · Jul 15, 2017

Hornady 45-70 LEVERevolution brass is shorter than standard to accommodate the fancy shmancy pointed polymer tipped bullets in cycling in lever action rifles. Need to keep the correct oal...

GolfR · Jul 15, 2017

I had some of the Hornady lever ammo given to me. I didn't realize the case difference until I tried to reload it and the bullet seating was off. I ended up throwing close to a 100 of the cases away because I didn't want to deal with them.

Uncle Duke · Jul 15, 2017

JAGGUY said:
Hornady 45-70 LEVERevolution brass is shorter than standard to accommodate the fancy shmancy pointed polymer tipped bullets in cycling in lever action rifles. Need to keep the correct oal...

Yep! According to Hornady Volume 10, 2.04 is the required trim length for the Hornady 250 grain Monoflex and the 325 grain FTX bullets due to longer ogive. Don't load this cartridge, but good to know in the event I do one day.

John from MD · Jul 15, 2017

Even Hornady .223 and 30/30 case lengths are short. I started thinking the lawyers got into the mess to limit liability. If you have a short chamber, chances are you will never have pressure problems with Hornady ammo. :shrug:

j8064 · Jul 15, 2017

JAGGUY said:
Hornady 45-70 LEVERevolution brass is shorter than standard to accommodate the fancy shmancy pointed polymer tipped bullets in cycling in lever action rifles. Need to keep the correct oal...

GolfR said:
I had some of the Hornady lever ammo given to me. I didn't realize the case difference until I tried to reload it and the bullet seating was off. I ended up throwing close to a 100 of the cases away because I didn't want to deal with them.

Uncle Duke said:
Yep! According to Hornady Volume 10, 2.04 is the required trim length for the Hornady 250 grain Monoflex and the 325 grain FTX bullets due to longer ogive. Don't load this cartridge, but good to know in the event I do one day.

Great input guys. Thanks!
At first I thought I was going nuts when I couldn't crimp the bullets in the cases.
I should have realized the cases are shorter before I started.
My bad and a great learning experience.
:thumbsup:

nedsurf · Jul 15, 2017

I have a bunch of hornady .357 brass that is also about that much shorter than published case length in reloading manuals. I guess it's a thing for them. I don't like much guesswork in my reloading so if they don't get scrapped they're for strictly cowboy/ gallery loads.

JAGGUY · Jul 15, 2017

Can't you adjust for a roll crimp using your seating die? should work if you have a cannalure on your boolet.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 16, 2017

1. It would also reduce COL, which could affect feeding on some lever actions.

2. The reduced case capacity could affect pressures on certian loads.

But OTOH , would be that much easier to trim to .45-60 length.

j8064 · Jul 17, 2017

JAGGUY said:
Can't you adjust for a roll crimp using your seating die? should work if you have a cannalure on your boolet.

Tried that. The Hornady cases are simply too short to work in standard 45-70 dies.

I did some research on trying to crimp Hornady 45-70 LEVERevolution cases. It’s not a new issue, just one I'd not run into before. Lots of discussion on the internet.

Redding makes crimp dies that supposedly work and they describe the issue pretty well here:
http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/167-profile-crimp-die-for-45-70-ftx-cases
Redding dies aren’t cheap:
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/296530/redding-profile-crimp-die-45-70-government

Another option is modifying a Lee FCD. Lee will trim their dies to work for $15 + $6 S/H:
http://leeprecision.net/support/ind.../572/60/4570-leverevolution-factory-crimp-die
A Lee FCD is about $11 plus shipping:
https://www.grafs.com/dealer/product/205795

For the few cases I have on my bench I'll try a trick of placing the case on top of the shell holder to achieve a crimp. That may work, but it's inconsistent and a royal PITA.

If these were my cases they'd be usable in a single shot rifle. But since you can buy Starline 45-70 cases for < $ .50 each, why spend good money after bad to buy crimp dies to reload the shorter than SAAMI spec cases?

Always something new to learn!

:thumbsup:

John from MD · Jul 17, 2017

I have ground down the bottom of a LEE FCD for short 7.62x54 rounds and it worked just fine. Keeping the short rounds separated from the rest is a pain as you have to tumble them separately and load them separately.

Biggfoot44 · Jul 18, 2017

Options:

1. Load the plastic tip bullets in those cases.

2. LEE .45-60 FCD is $25-ish

j8064 · Jul 19, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
Options:

1. Load the plastic tip bullets in those cases.

2. LEE .45-60 FCD is $25-ish

Option 1:
That isn't really an option. The length of the Hornady Leverevloution cases is the issue. No matter what projectiles are seated, the cases are simply too short to crimp in standard 45-70 dies.

Option 2:
No need to spend $'s on another die I don't need for 14 cases that aren't mine anyway.

I chose "Door #3" for the win:

With "just a little" reloading experience

combined with googlefu, I found the answer. By placing the shorter Hornady loaded cases on top of the shell holder they could be inserted into the Lee FCD "just enough" to get an acceptable crimp. I'm confident the rounds will work fine in a Marlin lever action tubular magazine.

These rounds will be tested next Hooligan range trip. My bet? Problem solved.

4570inMD · Jul 20, 2017

j8064 said:
I'm confident the rounds will work fine in a Marlin lever action tubular magazine.

These rounds will be tested next Hooligan range trip. My bet? Problem solved.

You chose wisely; those look very nice.

CombatAK · Aug 13, 2017

Yep, they worked just fine. Even though I got Starline brass and 405 grain lead bullets, I may still load them using j8064's technique. Thanks j8064 for the loads and the information. I will be scouring the berm to build up your lead collection.

byf43 · Aug 14, 2017

Ya know, I didn't even think about the shorter length of the Hornady brass, when I ordered some, a while back. (Haven't opened the box, either.

I'm going to have to check, to make sure this brass isn't short. :mad54:

45-70 Case Length: Hornady vs. Starline Brass?

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