The Pitfalls of Cheap Gunsafes....

Lostinbmore · Jan 22, 2016

safecracker said:
I'm not on this forum to make sales, so no offense taken. I'm here to help prevent you guys from being victims.

I know, I've spoken to you a few times offline.

clandestine said:
I know this to be true. Safecracker is a good man.

I agree.

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cantstop · Jan 22, 2016

Lostinbmore said:
DONT BE CHEAP...

I think it depends on what you need. I have an 8 gun StackOn that is basically just a key locked steel cabinet. It keeps little fingers off of my guns, but you could probably pop it open in under a minute with a good pry bar.

Unfortunately, most of the safes I've seen under a $1,000 aren't really much better at stopping a pry bar attacker with time on his hands.

k2-_2f51aa49-6391-4a19-932b-037b5693d602.v3.jpg

ericoak · Jan 22, 2016

A cheap safe bolted down plus insurance will cover you pretty well. You can get into any safe with proper tools.

Lostinbmore · Jan 22, 2016

cantstop said:
I think it depends on what you need. I have an 8 gun StackOn that is basically just a key locked steel cabinet. It keeps little fingers off of my guns, but you could probably pop it open in under a minute with a good pry bar.

Unfortunately, most of the safes I've seen under a $1,000 aren't really much better at stopping a pry bar attacker with time on his hands.

Ok thanks.

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traveller · Jan 22, 2016

safecracker said:
J
That would be it. I pulled these photos off of a locksmith forum that I belong to - and embellished things a bit in order to make a point. While the safe did not actually contain guns, I was trying to point out how poorly many of the gun safes on the market perform when subjected to forced entry attacks.

That pharmacy is in a world of hurt. DEA has iirc a TL15 requirement to store schedule II substances and this certainly didn't look like a rated container.

If we follow the mayor og Baltimores thinking, there will be 100eds of homicides in Ft Worth due to the drugs that made it on the market ('1.2 mil' is the typical police method of inflating values by quoting street price. Wholesale pharmacy this was a couple of thousand bucks).

safecracker · Jan 22, 2016

traveller said:
That pharmacy is in a world of hurt. DEA has iirc a TL15 requirement to store schedule II substances and this certainly didn't look like a rated container.

If we follow the mayor og Baltimores thinking, there will be 100eds of homicides in Ft Worth due to the drugs that made it on the market ('1.2 mil' is the typical police method of inflating values by quoting street price. Wholesale pharmacy this was a couple of thousand bucks).

DEA does have specific requirements for the storage of narcotics. Generally, GSA approved narcotics containers are required, but TL-15s and up will generally get approved. However, most DEA agents do not get any real training with respect to security containers, so it's possible that this container was inadvertently passed during inspection.

mancheechee · Jan 22, 2016

trickg said:
I've never had any illusions that my safe was burglary proof, and I've got a decent safe - a Heritage Tradition series safe. With that said, how I've got it positioned in my house makes it difficult to get to the sides, and it can't be moved because it's bolted down.

The bottom line, if someone really wants to get into my safe to get what's in there, it can be done, but it won't be done in 10 minutes.

I bought my safe for a few main reasons:

I wanted a bit of peace of mind in case of a fire, and even that's not guaranteed

I wanted basic security so most of my guns are secure in the house with people and kids in and out

I wanted basic burglar deterrent, so that your average Freddie Felon who breaks in looking for a quick grab can't get in.

I think I accomplished that. If someone comes in with some time and tools, it's only going to last so long with a motivated thief.

Bolting it down is number one priority...before considering placing any valuables in. Mine are bolted down into the concrete and next to it will be a heavy armoire...filled with scrapbook stuff lol. Maybe I should bolt the armoire down somehow and then glue a granite slab on top of the safes...lol...then when the thieves break in they'll find themselves with a hand full of scrapbooks!

TapRackBang · Jan 22, 2016

safecracker said:
So the lesson learned here is this guy went cheap on the safe. The firearms and accessories that he lost were valued at about 40 TIMES what he paid for the safe.

So now even though we know no firearms were lost

, there is still a good question here: What would a reasonable ratio of safe cost to valuables protected be? 1:1? 1:10? 1:20?

My mediocre mental math looks like most quality safes are 1:5 to 1:10 or smaller, meaning a $4000 safe will hold about $20k to $40k worth of firearms.

safecracker · Jan 22, 2016

I have seen upwards of $30,000 worth of firearms in $400 trash safes. To me it's the same thing as driving drunk or not using birth control. You have to ask yourself if it is worth the risk.

trickg · Jan 22, 2016

HortusQ said:
JB weld will fix it

JB Weld, a bit of Bondo, and it's right back in business! :lol2:

trickg · Jan 22, 2016

mancheechee said:
Bolting it down is number one priority...before considering placing any valuables in. Mine are bolted down into the concrete and next to it will be a heavy armoire...filled with scrapbook stuff lol. Maybe I should bolt the armoire down somehow and then glue a granite slab on top of the safes...lol...then when the thieves break in they'll find themselves with a hand full of scrapbooks!

Better that than the guns!

I've seen the videos where guys go to town on a budget safe by knocking it over and break it open with a couple of prybars - the whole process takes less than 5 minutes.

Even if my safe wasn't bolted down, it's 900 lbs empty, and with locking bolts on all 4 sides of the plate steel door, the only way in would be to cut through the thinner metal sides or top with an angle grinder. It is what it is - it's a good safe, but it's not foolproof by any means.

mancheechee · Jan 22, 2016

TapRackBang said:
So now even though we know no firearms were lost , there is still a good question here: What would a reasonable ratio of safe cost to valuables protected be? 1:1? 1:10? 1:20?

My mediocre mental math looks like most quality safes are 1:5 to 1:10 or smaller, meaning a $4000 safe will hold about $20k to $40k worth of firearms.

$4000 would be a very nice safe! That should get you a decent AMSEC or a Champion Crown series safe!

Quality safes are worth financing if you have that much worth of guns.
Why risk $40k to bunch of thus that'll sell them off for few thousand to be used for nefarious purposes.

http://www.championsafe.com/products_crown.html

Long1MD · Jan 22, 2016

What's the rule for engagement rings for women and there's your answer on how much you should spend on a safe

Long1MD · Jan 22, 2016

I believe the rule is "3 months salary ". If I had to guess, I'd say they mean gross not net.

mikemike328 · Jan 22, 2016

skip the ring and just buy the safe

TapRackBang · Jan 22, 2016

3 months salary? Awesome. I can afford the big storage box.

k2-_d9936c14-f28b-4d66-a17e-0e041815d23a.v1.jpg

I need a new job. :sad20:

mancheechee · Jan 22, 2016

mikemike328 said:
skip the ring and just buy the safe

single people with no kids have more flexibility!
lol

SS396 · Jan 22, 2016

A high dollar jewelers safe is great if you can afford it, but I certainly can't. After 26 years law enforcement experience and probably a couple thousand burglary investigations, my advice is to put thought and money into your first line of defense - exterior home security measures. Most homes are severely lacking. The safe is your last line of defense. Don't ever let them get that far. I'm not saying go cheap on a safe, but I can't tell you how many homes I've been to with a decent safe and a below ground basement door with glass window - not what you want.

travistheone · Jan 22, 2016

Good to see you at it man.

Hope all is well- cool pics.

lazarus · Jan 23, 2016

safecracker said:
J
That would be it. I pulled these photos off of a locksmith forum that I belong to - and embellished things a bit in order to make a point. While the safe did not actually contain guns, I was trying to point out how poorly many of the gun safes on the market perform when subjected to forced entry attacks. These are the same garbage containers carried at discount stores that I see constantly being discussed on this forum regarding "who has the lowest price?", as if the only difference between imported trash and a quality container is the price. A lot of these "safes" offer little more protection than a cardboard box and a padlock. Many of you own low-end junk like this and hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call to increase your security. I see similar circumstances all the time- guns, jewelry, cash, family heirlooms, etc....all severely under protected for the sake of saving money. The bottom line is: DON'T BE CHEAP.

I certainly agree, at some point. The sum total of my collection is likely worth less than $1,000 currently and I am a lot more concerned about kids accessing my firearms than I am theft. At some point, yes, I need better than a $100 keyed metal gun locker. But that is a few years away. I can reuse the locker for something else someday, like keeping tools locked up or something

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