Random musings about how to spend $600 before July...

lkenefic · May 14, 2016

Hey everyone... I've got the trust forms worked out, I just need to notarized and "fund it"... now, I need to figure out how to navigate purchases before July on the trust, and after when going through LEO with the fingerprint card, picture, etc... I do have a couple of questions though. I'm fairly well acquainted with the process when going through LEO.... basically it was just filing the forms with a passport picture, fingerprint card, and $200... then about a 4-5 month wait at the time. This was quite some time ago, but it doesn't appear to have appreciably changed. My understanding of going through a trust when purchasing through a dealer is that I just designate the trust as the "owner" when filing forms and paying the $200 transfer... then waiting. My questions to the group: in a perfect world, I would want a .22lr suppressor for a rifle, another for a pistol to accommodate 9mm and 45ACP, and a third for up to .30 cal rifle calibers.... I've put aside about $600, this would be enough to cover the transfer fee and the .22lr suppressor. If I was to start paperwork on 2 or 3 suppressors, how much headway would I need to make if I was to build my own suppressors and put them all on the trust? Is this possible before the July deadline?

dogbone · May 14, 2016

One of the advantages of a trust is being able to e-file the Form 1(s) for your suppressor build(s). You would need to have some minimal design ideas on your homemade cans, such as caliber, a model name, and a serial number. You should not start any assembly work on the can(s) until you have the approved Form 1(s) in hand.

Hawkeye · May 14, 2016

What Dogbone said is correct, but here's another five cents...

lkenefic said:
My understanding of going through a trust when purchasing through a dealer is that I just designate the trust as the "owner" when filing forms and paying the $200 transfer... then waiting.

That is correct, because the trust is the legal owner of the item, not you.

My questions to the group: in a perfect world, I would want a .22lr suppressor for a rifle, another for a pistol to accommodate 9mm and 45ACP, and a third for up to .30 cal rifle calibers.... I've put aside about $600, this would be enough to cover the transfer fee and the .22lr suppressor.

Yeah - I did the same decision process over the last six months. I ended up with a SilencerCo Octane for the pistols (which should be here any day now, though if I was doing this right now it would be a Rugged Obsidian instead), a Rugged Surge for the rifles, and a Dead Air Mask HD for the rimfire stuff.

If I was to start paperwork on 2 or 3 suppressors, how much headway would I need to make if I was to build my own suppressors and put them all on the trust? Is this possible before the July deadline?

Yes. Once you get the trust all finalized (notarized, etc), you can e-File the Form 1s for any suppressors you want to build right now. You don't have to have any parts on hand, and in fact it's illegal to start certain machining operations until you get the Form 1 back anyhow. If you want to build, e-File the Form 1s right now and you can build them at any future time after you get the stamps back. All you have to do right now is pick out a model name and a serial number for each one that you want to build, because you'll have to put that on the Form 1 when you file it. Then later you'll get that engraved on the suppressors.

There is a good guide on how to eFile the Form 1 right here:
http://www.realgunreviews.com/how-to-e-file-an-atf-form-1-with-eforms/

Overboost44 · May 14, 2016

Do you have to know the length or any other specs on the homebuilt suppressors to file ahead of time? Or just what has been mentioned?

lkenefic · May 14, 2016

Overboost44 said:
Do you have to know the length or any other specs on the homebuilt suppressors to file ahead of time? Or just what has been mentioned?

My understanding, and I'm certainly no expert (caveat emptor), is that you need a fairly detailed plan before you e-file with a trust. This includes the overall length of the can... a piece of information required to fill the form. If you look at the thread by "Weber" about builds, everything is fairly well spelled out if you're purchasing parts through SD Tactical.I suppose the only part the will cause me sleepless nights is if I specify a can that is 7.5 inches OAL, but it turns out to be 7.6 inches OAL after all the pieces come together...

lkenefic · May 14, 2016

Hawkeye said:
Yes. Once you get the trust all finalized (notarized, etc), you can e-File the Form 1s for any suppressors you want to build right now. You don't have to have any parts on hand, and in fact it's illegal to start certain machining operations until you get the Form 1 back anyhow. If you want to build, e-File the Form 1s right now and you can build them at any future time after you get the stamps back. All you have to do right now is pick out a model name and a serial number for each one that you want to build, because you'll have to put that on the Form 1 when you file it. Then later you'll get that engraved on the suppressors.

There is a good guide on how to eFile the Form 1 right here:
http://www.realgunreviews.com/how-to-e-file-an-atf-form-1-with-eforms/

It looks like the current wait time for Form 1's is 2 months... The way I'm seeing this is that I'm cutting this rather close. (I might be mistaken here?) Anyway, what happens to the pending form 1's that were e-filed or even Form 1's that were snail-mailed with a money order that are still "pending" as of July 13th?

Hawkeye · May 14, 2016

lkenefic said:
It looks like the current wait time for Form 1's is 2 months... The way I'm seeing this is that I'm cutting this rather close. (I might be mistaken here?) Anyway, what happens to the pending form 1's that were e-filed or even Form 1's that were snail-mailed with a money order that are still "pending" as of July 13th?

Ahhhh.... ok. I missed the nature of the question.

As long as the application is submitted by the deadline, it will be processed under the old rules.

Overboost44 · May 14, 2016

lkenefic said:
My understanding, and I'm certainly no expert (caveat emptor), is that you need a fairly detailed plan before you e-file with a trust. This includes the overall length of the can... a piece of information required to fill the form. If you look at the thread by "Weber" about builds, everything is fairly well spelled out if you're purchasing parts through SD Tactical.I suppose the only part the will cause me sleepless nights is if I specify a can that is 7.5 inches OAL, but it turns out to be 7.6 inches OAL after all the pieces come together...

Thanks. I think you are correct. I have read the thread several times, but it has been more than a month, so my memory fails me. I will read it again soon! Your concern about the OAL bothers me, too.

dontpanic · May 14, 2016

The specs on your form 1 do not need to be exactly what you build. Try to get it close.

You cannot change caliber but you can change diameter or OAL if you wish.

Boss94 · May 14, 2016

I have never tried it. But I wonder if atf would accept under caliber " Multi " ?

lkenefic · May 14, 2016

Boss94 said:
I have never tried it. But I wonder if atf would accept under caliber " Multi " ?

I'm of the KISS mentality... not the Gene Simmons version, when it comes to these things. In keeping it simple, I'll go with a .45cal can and use a thread adapter for 9mm. It will be larger overall dimensions, but a single can.

dontpanic · May 14, 2016

Boss94 said:
I have never tried it. But I wonder if atf would accept under caliber " Multi " ?

The ATF will not accept "Multi". But I'm pretty sure you can list more than one caliber.

Boss94 · May 14, 2016

I'll have to call 1 day when I get time. I have seen in the past like on a uzi where it does list 3 calibers , also on the HK sears. So maybe that's how 1 can do it.

lkenefic · May 14, 2016

But then what do you put on the side of the can for engraving. You need the name of the trust, city, state, model, serial number and caliber...

blksniper2000 · May 14, 2016

Overboost44 said:
Do you have to know the length or any other specs on the homebuilt suppressors to file ahead of time? Or just what has been mentioned?

I would make it a default of 12 inches, you can always modify it shorter not longer in the future

dontpanic · May 14, 2016

blksniper2000 said:
I would make it a default of 12 inches, you can always modify it shorter not longer in the future

You can make it longer or shorter. Makes no difference.

If you nake it different from your application, it is "suggested" you notify the ATF of the built configuration.

md_al · May 16, 2016

lkenefic said:
My understanding, and I'm certainly no expert (caveat emptor), is that you need a fairly detailed plan before you e-file with a trust. This includes the overall length of the can... a piece of information required to fill the form. If you look at the thread by "Weber" about builds, everything is fairly well spelled out if you're purchasing parts through SD Tactical.I suppose the only part the will cause me sleepless nights is if I specify a can that is 7.5 inches OAL, but it turns out to be 7.6 inches OAL after all the pieces come together...

I put 10 inches or 12 inches on my form 1. Shorter length on the actual build is ok. Longer is not.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

md_al · May 16, 2016

md_al said:
I put 10 inches or 12 inches on my form 1. Shorter length on the actual build is ok. Longer is not.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Multi does not apply to form 1 suppressor builds. Best bet would be a 45 cal can then multiple pistons for the LID. Most of the answers for the questions posted were in the $100 Suppressor thread.

lkenefic said:
But then what do you put on the side of the can for engraving. You need the name of the trust, city, state, model, serial number and caliber...

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

lkenefic · May 16, 2016

md_al said:
Multi does not apply to form 1 suppressor builds. Best bet would be a 45 cal can then multiple pistons for the LID. Most of the answers for the questions posted were in the $100 Suppressor thread.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Very true. .. Weber's thread on the $100 suppressor build is brilliant. There's a wealth of information about builds and forms. This thread was initiated to help people on the fence decide whether or not to start multiple form 1's on a trust versus just buying a single suppressor and going the CLEO route after July 13th.

fabsroman · May 17, 2016

Overboost44 said:
Do you have to know the length or any other specs on the homebuilt suppressors to file ahead of time? Or just what has been mentioned?

This has been covered in the $100 Form 1 suppressor thread. Weber puts down 12" on each of his Form 1 apps. Then, the suppressor can be built shorter than that. Then, if you are really worried about submitting the exact length to the ATF, you can file a form regarding the modification. The exact form slips my mind right now. It is the opposite of an SBR. The SBR can be listed at 29" and then built longer than that. Christ, how is one to know the exact length of an SBR prior to building it. Somewhat hard to do "exactly".

Now, as long as the Form 1 goes pending before July 13, 2016, it is governed by the current rules. Rule 41P goes into effect for anything that is not pending on July 13, 2016. Hard to believe that is less than 2 months away.

This means I need to get off my can and get some Form 1 applications submitted for 5 cans and a SBS. That will be it for me for tax stamps. Then, on to spending money building all these things. Think the firearm budget is shot for the next decade.

Random musings about how to spend $600 before July...

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