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Old February 14th, 2018, 10:34 PM #101
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We’re going to have to oppose this bill hard. Point out it won’t pass constitutional muster and we need to focus on areas that go after criminals, not law abiding voters.

This law would ban most all magazines in Maryland for both handguns and rifles. Most liberals who wont admit they own a handgun will be the exact type that won’t know of changes in the law. Not to mention the fact that even if you get rid of all the ones you think you had, what happens to the one you accidentally forgot in the back of the closet. The proposed penalties are a joke for possession of a piece of plastic.

Further it means people passing through the state with their collection would be in violation just driving through.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 10:43 PM #102
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Ramirez wants to lock up gun owners but not repeat offenders or violently mentally ill. Hes a socialist, so its not surprising he wants to punish everyone for the problems of a few. Rather tham just dealing with the few.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 10:44 PM #103
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The event today will be used to push this law.
Agreed.

Also wondering if the Dems just for the hell of it will pass it to see if Hogan veto, and use that for political capital.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 11:35 PM #104
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Honestly I dont think todays tragedy changes the calculus of this bill one iota. This is mostly about showboating and positioning for the mid term races, and the primary in the MD gov race. Delegates inclined to support it already signed on. The rest in competitive races will be leery of veering from taxes and economic issues, mindful that Anthony Ar15s-in-schoolyards Brown lost. The rampant murder problem in Baltimore is a repeat offender problem, not an infinite capacity clipazine problem. Its also a Baltimore problem. Not a Howard, Montgomery, or Baltimore County problem. They could not get this in 2013 when the shock value was higher. The evil black rifle the FL shooter used is banned in MD. whew! Plus, now we have a CA appellate ruling in our favor that also calls out Daniel Webster for the propagandist he his.

Of course they will leverage tears all they can, because thats the only argument they have. Facts and logic are irrelevant. But I dont think it changes the calculus much.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 12:24 AM #105
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Lets get some of the good legislators to introduce a bill that would criminalize the sponsoring and passing of an unconstitutional bill (especially one that obviously is a back door to attempt to circumvent the US Constitution.

Our founding Fathers didn't trust the government and they WERE the government, what does that say about government?!?!
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Old February 15th, 2018, 05:26 AM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Honestly I dont think todays tragedy changes the calculus of this bill one iota. This is mostly about showboating and positioning for the mid term races, and the primary in the MD gov race. Delegates inclined to support it already signed on. The rest in competitive races will be leery of veering from taxes and economic issues, mindful that Anthony Ar15s-in-schoolyards Brown lost. The rampant murder problem in Baltimore is a repeat offender problem, not an infinite capacity clipazine problem. Its also a Baltimore problem. Not a Howard, Montgomery, or Baltimore County problem. They could not get this in 2013 when the shock value was higher. The evil black rifle the FL shooter used is banned in MD. whew! Plus, now we have a CA appellate ruling in our favor that also calls out Daniel Webster for the propagandist he his.

Of course they will leverage tears all they can, because thats the only argument they have. Facts and logic are irrelevant. But I dont think it changes the calculus much.
I'm in agreement here, they're just trying to call Hogan's hand. If posession was on their radar they'd have gotten it into FSA 2013.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 08:58 AM #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danb View Post
Honestly I dont think todays tragedy changes the calculus of this bill one iota. This is mostly about showboating and positioning for the mid term races, and the primary in the MD gov race. Delegates inclined to support it already signed on. The rest in competitive races will be leery of veering from taxes and economic issues, mindful that Anthony Ar15s-in-schoolyards Brown lost. The rampant murder problem in Baltimore is a repeat offender problem, not an infinite capacity clipazine problem. Its also a Baltimore problem. Not a Howard, Montgomery, or Baltimore County problem. They could not get this in 2013 when the shock value was higher. The evil black rifle the FL shooter used is banned in MD. whew! Plus, now we have a CA appellate ruling in our favor that also calls out Daniel Webster for the propagandist he his.

Of course they will leverage tears all they can, because thats the only argument they have. Facts and logic are irrelevant. But I dont think it changes the calculus much.
I read someoneís (not on here!) comment that made my head hurt on how Australia banned multi clip capacity semiautomatic assault guns and they havenít had a mass shooting since multi clip capacity assault guns were banned, seized and destroyed.

I donít engage stupid, but beyond oi vey level of comment...Aussieís didnít ban all semiautos, just severely restricted them. And their murder rate was already trending down and the firearm related murder rate didnít suddenly plummet, it followed the same trend line down. Oh and now there are more guns in Aussie land today than there were before Port Arthur AND the per capita ownership rate is slowly increasing in top of that.

US violent crime rate is also generally going down. I think 2017 was the first year it appears to have gone up and 1 year isnít a trend.

MDís has gone up a lot since 2013 false security act was passed.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 09:53 AM #108
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
I read someone’s (not on here!) comment that made my head hurt on how Australia banned multi clip capacity semiautomatic assault guns and they haven’t had a mass shooting since multi clip capacity assault guns were banned, seized and destroyed.

I don’t engage stupid, but beyond oi vey level of comment...Aussie’s didn’t ban all semiautos, just severely restricted them. And their murder rate was already trending down and the firearm related murder rate didn’t suddenly plummet, it followed the same trend line down. Oh and now there are more guns in Aussie land today than there were before Port Arthur AND the per capita ownership rate is slowly increasing in top of that.

US violent crime rate is also generally going down. I think 2017 was the first year it appears to have gone up and 1 year isn’t a trend.

MD’s has gone up a lot since 2013 false security act was passed.
Also: it did NOT reduce mass murder. Australia is a small country, about 25 million people. They have had a number of massacres like one where an arsonist killed 11 people in a nursing home in 2011.

Australia has the same rate of mass murder as the US, once you scale it for population (once every six years is about the same as once per year here). The mechanism of mass murder, like suicide, seems to be a cultural thing.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 01:32 PM #109
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Agreed.

Also wondering if the Dems just for the hell of it will pass it to see if Hogan veto, and use that for political capital.
I am not confident that Hogan would veto it.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 01:43 PM #110
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On 1), the ex post facto prohibition only applies if they tried to charge you with illegal possession after the law passed on the basis of having possessed magazines BEFORE the law passed. But they can indeed charge you with illegal possession if the law passes and you continue to possess the magazines. It wouldn't matter when you purchased them, since it's the possession, not the purchase, that's the crime. Grandfathering is often politically expedient but isn't necessary to avoid running afoul of ex post facto.

On 2), I think it might be tough to make a 5th amendment claim. The property isn't being taken for public use, and if the law passes, the property is not legally held.

IANAL, and would certainly be interested in hearing other perspectives on this. Particularly other precedents of an item being banned without grandfathering or compensation.
So in your case, the government can make it illegal to own a book that the collective group/ruling party does not like (something else protected under the Constitution), and can freely make criminals of whomever owns said book as a result? That is a textbook case of Tyranny, even if that's the intent or not.

If that was the case, make being an illegal immigrant illegal and charge/deport anyone who's here illegally. Oh wait....not in their narrative/agenda.
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