HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

iH8DemLibz · Apr 3, 2018

parttimer said:
There may not be anything she can do at this time about the bill. She sure could do something to explain her position to the voters in her district. Her silence is speaking volumes to me about her character. I know next time she comes down to SLSC wanting an audience and donations she won't be able to count on me this time around. That is unless she has a really really good excuse for her silence.

Gun owners are desperately searching for good excuses from the anti-2Aers so gun owners can use those excuses as an excuse to vote these anti-2Aers back into office again.

The best way to ensure they can never vote against us again is to never vote for them again.

Adolph Oliver Bush · Apr 3, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
On behalf of our crew that stalks these sessions, thanks.

About 6:20pm (almost 2.5 hours in) and the RED FLAG BILL not yet in discussion.

'Ta hell?? I could have come over after work! Thanks for sticking it out (again). I enjoyed myself last night. The only thing better would be to hang out not to fight the stupid gun bills proposed in this state, but to hang out enjoying the freedoms of living in America.

smkranz · Apr 3, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Gun owners are desperately searching for good excuses from the anti-2Aers so gun owners can use those excuses as an excuse to vote these anti-2Aers back into office again.

The best way to ensure they can never vote against us again is to never vote for them again.

I haven't heard back (yet) from my Delegate (R) who voted for HB 1302, which is very disappointing. I did speak at length last evening with my friendly Senator who convincingly said that many Delegates desperately want another crack at this bill, because they believe the were misled (probably unintentionally) by leadership and the NRA. He also believes that when the dust settles, we will all hear from them; they got thousands of emails in backlash to their votes. I certainly hope that is true, but I do intend to follow up with my Delegate. I asked the Senator if this is all a function of everyone just not having enough time to read and digest what is in every bill. He made no excuses for them, but I suspect the answer to that is yes in some cases.

So assuming that what comes out of the Senate is different than what came out of the House, there will be fresh votes and new opportunities to judge our Delegates.

basscat · Apr 3, 2018

So they were "misled". Interesting that none of them have a mind of their own. Did they even read the damn thing?

smkranz · Apr 3, 2018

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
'Ta hell?? I could have come over after work! Thanks for sticking it out (again). I enjoyed myself last night. The only thing better would be to hang out not to fight the stupid gun bills proposed in this state, but to hang out enjoying the freedoms of living in America.

It was great, and eye-opening, to hang with you guys in the meeting room last night for the first time. Back out on the street afterwards every Monday is the only exercise I seem to get these days

rseymorejr · Apr 3, 2018

smkranz said:
I haven't heard back (yet) from my Delegate (R) who voted for HB 1302, which is very disappointing. I did speak at length last evening with my friendly Senator who convincingly said that many Delegates desperately want another crack at this bill, because they believe the were misled (probably unintentionally) by leadership and the NRA. He also believes that when the dust settles, we will all hear from them; they got thousands of emails in backlash to their votes. I certainly hope that is true, but I do intend to follow up with my Delegate. I asked the Senator if this is all a function of everyone just not having enough time to read and digest what is in every bill. He made no excuses for them, but I suspect the answer to that is yes in some cases.

So assuming that what comes out of the Senate is different than what came out of the House, there will be fresh votes and new opportunities to judge our Delegates.

What's that old saying? Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance? or something like that

smkranz · Apr 3, 2018

rseymorejr said:
What's that old saying? Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance? or something like that

I dunno. Maybe explained, but definitely not excused IMHO.

smkranz · Apr 3, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
RED FLAG BILL markup & discussion session now underway at Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee, with the group messing with minor bills first.

Deep Lurker and I now joined by MSI President Mark Pennak.

They refuse to provide us a working copy of the language because Chair Zirkin says it represents Committee work product.

Unclear if they will vote on HB1302 today—more likely tomorrow.

In response to a question from the NRA lobbyist about the status of the bill language still “floating”, Zirkin said “I think we got it”....

At yesterday's SJPC meeting, it was obvious that committee members (and members of the so-called "working group") were being presented with new draft language which they had not seen before. No one in the room could explain where it came from. It was shocking to me as an observer, that Chairman Zirkin announced several times that a vote on this would take place today, when committee members not only had no idea where new language had come from, but had no idea what implications there would be to law enforcement, the judiciary, or the interplay between this draft POS and current law involving protective orders and the like. Senators Hough, Ready, Cassilly, and actually Delores Kelley, asked probing and critical questions which laid bare the flaws of the bill, even as amended. What is ultimately voted upon by this committee, who knows whether we'll get to see it first.

Sausage-making at its wurst.

Bob A · Apr 4, 2018

rseymorejr said:
What's that old saying? Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance? or something like that

In the GA, it's not an either/or proposition.

Ignorance? Certainly, and demonstrated publicly in numerous hearings.

Malice? How else to explain the constant ramping-up of redundant legislation, stuffed with ambiguity, whose purpose would seem to be both to intimidate by attaching grave penalties to laws which are only enforced against legal gun owners, as well as increasing the financial and temporal burdens on these gun owners in attempting to satisfy the regulations that multiply like mushrooms on a dung heap.

EL1227 · Apr 4, 2018

Play on your play of words ...

smkranz said:
At yesterday's SJPC meeting, it was obvious that committee members (and members of the so-called "working group") were being presented with new draft language which they had not seen before. No one in the room could explain where it came from. It was shocking to me as an observer, that Chairman Zirkin announced several times that a vote on this would take place today, when committee members not only had no idea where new language had come from, but had no idea what implications there would be to law enforcement, the judiciary, or the interplay between this draft POS and current law involving protective orders and the like. Senators Hough, Ready, Cassilly, and actually Delores Kelley, asked probing and critical questions which laid bare the flaws of the bill, even as amended. What is ultimately voted upon by this committee, who knows whether we'll get to see it first.

Sausage-making at its wurst.

They didn't 'make' that sausage, it was 'imported'. I smell a BloomTurd in that Hogg sausage casing

ironpony · Apr 4, 2018

Will be interesting to see if they write in their own immunity to this bill.

Hawkeye · Apr 4, 2018

smkranz said:
many Delegates desperately want another crack at this bill, because they believe the were misled (probably unintentionally) by leadership and the NRA.

This is exactly what my delegate said about it when I spoke to him after the initial vote. He said that there was no input from the NRA on it, and that "leadership" said that it was a yea vote for the party line.

Couple that with what's below, and you get a yes vote:

I asked the Senator if this is all a function of everyone just not having enough time to read and digest what is in every bill. He made no excuses for them, but I suspect the answer to that is yes in some cases.

That is precisely what he told me. He has himself and one assistant to help him read bills, and hundreds - sometimes thousands - of bills come across his desk every year and up for a vote. While he would like to have the time to read each of them, he just can't, so sometimes he scans them, or reads a summary, or relies on guidance from party leadership or groups like the NRA.

He seems an honest guy and has always been forthright with me, and has, before this, always voted with us on gun issues, so I take what he says at face value there. He was open with me in saying that he voted for it without fully understanding it, and then when he started to get emails and calls about it from us afterword, he had an "oh S*$%" moment when he went and gave it a careful read.

Jim12 · Apr 4, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Gun owners are desperately searching for good excuses from the anti-2Aers so gun owners can use those excuses as an excuse to vote these anti-2Aers back into office again.

The best way to ensure they can never vote against us again is to never vote for them again.

... because having an anti-2A Democrat who votes in lockstep with Miller and Busch would be better?

44man · Apr 4, 2018

Hawkeye said:
This is exactly what my delegate said about it when I spoke to him after the initial vote. He said that there was no input from the NRA on it, and that "leadership" said that it was a yea vote for the party line.

Couple that with what's below, and you get a yes vote:

That is precisely what he told me. He has himself and one assistant to help him read bills, and hundreds - sometimes thousands - of bills come across his desk every year and up for a vote. While he would like to have the time to read each of them, he just can't, so sometimes he scans them, or reads a summary, or relies on guidance from party leadership or groups like the NRA.

He seems an honest guy and has always been forthright with me, and has, before this, always voted with us on gun issues, so I take what he says at face value there. He was open with me in saying that he voted for it without fully understanding it, and then when he started to get emails and calls about it from us afterword, he had an "oh S*$%" moment when he went and gave it a careful read.

So the nra testifying against it wasn’t a clue to him that they didn’t approve of it?

And he didn’t get the emails from everyone in the state against it before the vote? I know I sent every rep a dozen emails or more before the votes started, he didn’t see them?

Just more excuses

Boondock Saint · Apr 4, 2018

Hawkeye said:
This is exactly what my delegate said about it when I spoke to him after the initial vote. He said that there was no input from the NRA on it, and that "leadership" said that it was a yea vote for the party line.

Couple that with what's below, and you get a yes vote:

That is precisely what he told me. He has himself and one assistant to help him read bills, and hundreds - sometimes thousands - of bills come across his desk every year and up for a vote. While he would like to have the time to read each of them, he just can't, so sometimes he scans them, or reads a summary, or relies on guidance from party leadership or groups like the NRA.

He seems an honest guy and has always been forthright with me, and has, before this, always voted with us on gun issues, so I take what he says at face value there. He was open with me in saying that he voted for it without fully understanding it, and then when he started to get emails and calls about it from us afterword, he had an "oh S*$%" moment when he went and gave it a careful read.

I'm not here to crucify the guy, but I'm not buying what he's selling as an excuse for not doing his job. No one ever said that being an elected representative would be easy. We should expect long hours from them, working to understand the intricacies of a particular bill when it comes up for a vote. There might be 2,000 bills in a given session. Only a fraction of them make it to the floor, of course. Even in committee, where a delegate's work is chiefly done, those are but a subset of bills that are submitted in a year.

I'm still pissed off about his votes this session. His "oh crap" moment only came after he realized it cost him politically. He didn't have that moment when he was getting feedback from advocacy groups and individual citizens prior to his votes, of course. He was happy to toe the line until he got some backlash for it.

Too many bills? Work harder, get some more help, or stand aside and let someone else do the work.

iH8DemLibz · Apr 4, 2018

Jim12 said:
... because having an anti-2A Democrat who votes in lockstep with Miller and Busch would be better?

In the last five years, right here on MDS, how many threads have there been about lying, snakes in the grass, politicians? I'm betting there's been more than a few. And when the lying snakes are discovered, chants of ***VOTE THEM OUT. KICK THEM OUT. VOTE THEM OUT. KICK THEM OUT.*** reverberated throughout the Water Cooler.

But when folks start talking about actually voting them out and kicking them out, another chant is heard. The chant goes something like this: NO! DON'T! NO! DON'T! Followed by: We didn't mean we wanted our Critter kicked out. Because our Critter is the single most greatest Critter that ever crittered.

Critters are smart. AKA: Shrewd, Self-Serving, A-Holes. They know we won't vote them out. Because we're afraid of other Critters. Critters who would, let's say, vote in lock-step with Miller and Busch. They use that primal fear against us. While voting to destroy The Bill of Rights. Due Process? Who needs that?

And we roll over and forgive them and get rolled by them time and time again.

Either we continue to vote for them and shut our mouths going forward or we voice our displeasure with them and vote them out. Those are the only two choices.

danb · Apr 4, 2018

iH8DemLibz said:
Critters are smart. AKA: Shrewd, Self-Serving, A-Holes. They know we won't vote them out. Because we're afraid of other Critters. Critters who would, let's say, vote in lock-step with Miller and Busch. They use that primal fear against us. And vote to destroy The Bill of Rights. Due Process? Who needs that?

Maryland is so gerrymandered that few delegates even have general election competition, let alone primary competition. I am personally highly irritated no one filed in the general to challenge Zirkin. This was a winnable district. The few Republican Delegates in MD that are left are not getting voted out. The GOP may even pick up a few rumored districts this fall and break the super-majority. On the bright side, whatever comes out of Annapolis is better than what Trump proposed.

Derek · Apr 4, 2018

44man said:
...And he didn’t get the emails from everyone in the state against it before the vote? I know I sent every rep a dozen emails or more before the votes started...

Me too.

Rack&Roll · Apr 4, 2018

Make no mistake this RED FLAG bill is still an off-the-chain nasty pit bull.

Last night, however, the Republicans on the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee worked to grind down some of the teeth on this pit bull. I did not get in until after midnight after spending all day in Annapolis tracking this violation to our Constitution.

Today, there will probably be a vote to move it back to the House, where they are limited to an up or down vote on this POS as the legislative clock runs out.

After I get a shower to wash off the stink from the Sausage Factory and get a cup of coffee, I will fill you in on our best efforts to derail this thing – – although vindictive traitor and Senate President Mike Miller has demanded this unlawful law be dropped on us NO MATTER WHAT.

He is a disgrace to Maryland and should’ve tarred and feathered for ordering that our Civil Rights Be violated.

50 years ago today, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was killed while fighting for the Civil Rights that modern politicians are so willing to gut today. Shame!

EL1227 · Apr 4, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
Make no mistake this bill is still an off-the-chain nasty pit bull.

Last night, however, the Republicans on the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee worked to grind down some of the teeth on this pit bull. I did not get in until after midnight after spending all day in Annapolis tracking this violation to our Constitution.

After I get a shower to wash off the stink from the Sausage Factory and get a cup of coffee, I will fill you in on our best efforts to derail this thing – – although vindictive traitor and Senate President Mike Miller has demanded demanded this unlawful law be dropped on us.

He is a disgrace to Maryland and should’ve tarred and feathered for ordering that our Civil Rights Be violated.

50 years ago today, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was killed while fighting for the Civil Rights that modern politicians are so willing to gut today. Shame!

Miller is nothing but a crime boss with political legitimacy. With his silver pompadour and scowling jowls he even looks the part. Without OWE'Malley's boy'ish charm and B'More Sun's bogus polls, Miller would have never been able to ramrod SB281 through on his own. He lost his mojo when Hogan was elected, now his sole purpose is to back Hogan into a veto corner because Frosh won't challenge its unconstitutionality. Which is the real genesis if the latest version of gun-grabbing madness from NapTown.

HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

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