Martini Henry Mrk IV: a disappointment

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  • SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    First, I want to say that I love the Queen of England and I also have great respect for her subjects. I do have a small collection of English military small arms (not just Mosin Nagant rifles) and Martini Henry (MH) Mrk IV rifle is one of them. The image of British soldiers in red coats holding the MHs in movies such as Zulu and Zulu Dawn helped me to understand the words MAGNIFICENT and GLORY.

    I acquired my MH from Gunbroker a year ago and I really enjoy making the ammo and shooting them. My version of the ammo is cheap to produce and accurate enough for steel gong at 100 yards. I was extremely happy with this rifle until last weekend when I decided to fire form 10 blemished cases left from 24G shot shell to MH case forming process using Lee die. I am not new to the case fire forming. I have done it a zillion times with other rifles that I own especially the French’s Gras rifles. For large cases like Gras and MH, I normally use 8gr of Titewad and fill the rest with wheatmeal. The cartridges are capped with toilet tissues. Nothing fancy.

    last weekend, my MH was jammed after 80 reduced loads and 10 fire form loads. It happened right after the very last shot. At first, I did not know what really happened to the rifle. I could not eject the casing out of the chamber. I fought with the problem all night and I failed. The MH action was something I did not know too much about. I did disassemble the rifle once when I first got it for inspection. I had a hard time putting it back so I had not field stripped it for a year. The next day, I knocked on top of the breech block with a piece of wood and the brass was ejected, but the smile did not stay on my face for long when I discovered that the action now stop working. At this very moment, the disappointment started flooding my soul. I put the rifle down then walked upstairs. If I stayed in my basement a minute longer, The MH would be in pieces.

    The next evening, I disassembled the MH action. Again, I did it the wrong way; I removed the trigger group first than the breech block. When the breech block dropped out of the receiver, I saw something wrong with the tip of the striker. I than dissembled the breech block; after everything came apart, I found the striker broken in half.

    I spent a couple of days searching for MH striker issue on the internet and I did not see anyone complaint about it. I also found that the replacement strikers could be found in some UK websites and at International Military Antiques (IMA) for $40 and up. After I ordered the $40 second grade type III striker form IMA, I discovered that they also have type II strikers. The original type II striker are selling for $80 and a Nepalese made can be had for as little as $20. After I read the description and the review for several times, I decided to buy a Nepalese made striker also. I believed that I can make it to work in my MH.

    While waiting for the replacement parts, I have questions for the folks who own the MH rifles out there. How often striker and striker spring are broken in MH rifles? How to prevent these mishaps from happening again? Where can I find cheap replacement striker? Is there anyone out there let the Chinese manufacturing knowing that MH owner communities around the world need strikers and striker springs?
     

    Machodoc

    Old Guy
    Jun 27, 2012
    5,745
    Just South of Chuck County
    The original type II striker are selling for $80 and a Nepalese made can be had for as little as $20. After I read the description and the review for several times, I decided to buy a Nepalese made striker also. I believed that I can make it to work in my MH.

    The Napalese parts came out of a large cache of guns that were in only so-so storage for many years. The guns that could in any reasonable way be sold as complete were sold, and the rest parted out. I wouldn't be surprised at getting one of those parts and having it covered with surface corrosion, but it should be the kind that cleans up pretty well and the part (if it can be made to fit correctly) should otherwise be fine.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    I have a Martini-Henry dated 1878. Sorry, I can't help with any of your questions. You're way ahead of me. I've only fired mine once, and thought I'd never get the jammed casing out of the chamber.

    your MH rifle's striker was broken after just one shot. It's the world record.

    If the case is still in the chamber, you have to take the trigger group out first by removing the screw and the cocking indicator near the bottom of the receiver. The long lever also drop out. Next, punch the top pin that holds the Breech block to the receiver out then you can push out the breech block. The case will come out with the extractor or you can push it out with the cleaning rod.

    You can do just like i did. Pull the lever out as much as you can then rest the rifle on your laps. Knock the front of the breech lock down using a piece of wood and a hammer. just give it a light tap. That will break the tip of the striker (the tip of the broken striker holds the action in place with the help of the striker spring.) and the block will drop down and also extract the case. The steel used to make the striker is very brittle.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    The man in the video above convinced me that I can form the cartridge casing for my MH from 24G shotshell in one step using Lee dies. I did see a similar video showing how to restore MH rilfes from a man in Pennsylvania and I did buy a Mrk 4 from Atlantic Cuttery. Unfortunately they sent me an untouch rifle that did not look like the one I saw on Gunbroker so I asked for my money back. It took a while for them to refund the money after I promissed not to give them a negative feedback. I ended up buying a cleaned and complete rifle from a man from Pensylvania who sold several MH rifles (could be the same man who made the video) a year ago on Gunbroker. I paid the same price as for the untouch. However, I lost my winter project.

    Thanks for the video! I wish this guy does some trouble shooting videos for common problems with the MH rifles. May be people just love to show exciting things but problems.
     

    smoothebore

    Active Member
    your MH rifle's striker was broken after just one shot. It's the world record.

    If the case is still in the chamber, you have to take the trigger group out first by removing the screw and the cocking indicator near the bottom of the receiver. The long lever also drop out. Next, punch the top pin that holds the Breech block to the receiver out then you can push out the breech block. The case will come out with the extractor or you can push it out with the cleaning rod.

    You can do just like i did. Pull the lever out as much as you can then rest the rifle on your laps. Knock the front of the breech lock down using a piece of wood and a hammer. just give it a light tap. That will break the tip of the striker (the tip of the broken striker holds the action in place with the help of the striker spring.) and the block will drop down and also extract the case. The steel used to make the striker is very brittle.

    My striker didn't break, I just had a hard time extracting the casing. I think the top of the chamber gets fouled and it's difficult to clean.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    My striker didn't break, I just had a hard time extracting the casing. I think the top of the chamber gets fouled and it's difficult to clean.

    Looks like you need a Dremel with extended flexible shaft and polishing compound. If you don't have the tool, try hot water and bore brush might work. Use your pinky finger to feel the chamber. I have found that the MH chamber is the easiest to clean. Your MH may have a lot of dried grease in there. Also check your brass for correct size. I don't have extraction issue unless the firing pin is broken. How do you know your striker is still intact?
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    I received the strikers from IMA this afternoon. I also got the new spring from local Ace hardware store (Zimmerman). The type III striker is a perfect fit. even it is a grade 2, it looks great. I wonder how the selected with no marking striker looks like and why it costs $60. The type II is 20% smaller than the type III and the head looks really ugly. However, it looks much better than in the picture. I will use my Dremel tool to file the tip down and also make the slot wider and longer. I hope it works.
     

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    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    Modification job is done. I will test fire with blanks very soon. No more dry fire. The MH's action is too fragile for this activity.
     

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    toolness1

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 5, 2014
    2,723
    BFE, Missouri
    Try not to let it frustrate you and look at it as a learning experience and chance to practice your tinkering skills.

    When you're dealing with firearms this old that have been beat around, fired, stored in questionable conditions, etc for decades you're going to see problems from time to time.

    The problem with aftermarket parts for stuff this old is that they have to know there's quite a demand before anyone is going to "tool up" to make them. They would have to make a ton to get the price down under that 40 dollars or so, by the time they cover labor and the tools.

    Sure, there's plenty of people out there with the skills to make them by hand, but that's very time consuming.

    Your best bet would be to check for some MH forums and see if there's a large group of people that could do a group buy to have something made.

    In the end, people usually just pony up the dough for original parts when they are still available. Eventually, all the extras will be gone. That's more likely when you will have a better chance at seeing aftermarket stuff. IMO......

    It's not a unicorn like a M95M extractor, where you can look forever and never find one. Not yet, that is.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    No, the rifle did not frustrate me. It is the people who are glorifying its image and overrating its design and functionalities.
    I am disappointed in the MH rifle because I just realized that it is a money pit. I spent quite a lot of money in equipment and loading materials just to find out that it is a fragile piece of fire arm, and more money is needed to maintain it operational.

    I have several rifles (Gras, Springfield) produced in the same era and all went to wars and came back. None of them has any issues after hundreds of shots. Now I understand why U.S. Army picked the Springfield Trapdoor with the external lock.

    I also believe that if the British forces in South Africa had the Peabody instead of the MH they could have avoided the Isandlwana massacre. It is so clear in my mind that too many of the MHs were jammed and bayonets were the only effective weapons on the hands of the braved British soldiers. That’s why they fought in lines instead of in defensive squares that the British Army had mastered in Napoleonic wars and Crimean war. The current lies/history suggested that the Quarter Master Sergeant AND the ammo box design killed them all. I used to work with the British and I know they are very resourceful and never let a fool stand in their way.

    About the strikers I got from IMA, The Type III looks like a new aftermarket product that I strongly believe that $40 is an over price. The handmade type II striker is advertised on IMA website as: “…The strikers come in two models, but all strikers are compatible with all models of the rifle…” So this is a lie. After several hours playing with it and destroyed a few Dremel tips, my conclusion is: buy the “unmarked second graded type II striker” for shooting fun. Save the original striker and spring for the next owner who might want to spend more money for the rifle than you did.

    I have learned so much about the MH since the striker broken. This is a positive side of it, and this is why I love C&R guns. The modern guns are sooooo boring. :) They hardly give me a problem and too accurate for my handloads. I have installed the type II striker in the MH. Between now and Sunday, I will test fire with blanks before I bring the rifle back to the range.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    Last night the wife left home for early vote. wasted no time, I went down the basement for the MH rifle test fire with the type II striker. I fired 4 times using a single brass and all went bang. I found that even with a weaker striker spring from a local hardware store, the lighter type II striker works just fine. I may want to sand down the tip a little more next time I field strip the rifle for cleaning. This coming Sunday, I will fire 21 light loaded cartridges that I already have on hand. If they are all ignited then I can say my job is done.
     

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    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    Shot the MH this morning. The results were just marginal reliable. 21 cartridges were shot; 21 dings were heard, but there were 6 cartridges needed more than 1 trigger pull. 1 of the 6 hangfired (this had nothing to do with striker action. The powder might not stay where it should be). I will replace the striker spring with a longer one (less than $1 each, I will keep trying until success.)
     

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    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    One of the greatest moments I have with the MH rifle. I wish I can do this every weekend.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqUCIvIP6g

    If you crank up the volume, you can hear the dings split of the second after the bangs (peps actually, it sounds like cap gun.) With High Definition Smart TV/screen you can see the gong moving after shots.
     
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    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    Update:

    The test firing last time did not go smoothly (more than 6 misfires.) I was on a hunt for a stronger striker spring at local hardware stores and I found 1 quite close to what I want. It has OD (outer Dimension)=.5", ID (Inner Dimension)=.0335, wire thickness=.080" and 6" long. The ID was a bit small so I had to enlarge it to fit the striker and cut it down to 10 turns (the same with the original spring length.) Last Friday, the weather was nice so I took a day off to go to the AGC range. I gave the MH 8 shots and all went off with easy and accurately.

    I got a Chronometer with me on Friday so I got the measurement of the shots peed and it is about 711 ft/sec. With my calculation, I now know that it takes about .67 second to hear the gong after the bullet leaves the muzzle.

    Because the MH mrk4 is a disappointment so I decided to buy another MH. This time a Mark II. It will arrive at my home so time today. I hope that I can learn more about the rifle and have better understanding what really happened during its service.
     

    CasualObserver

    Who Observes the Observer
    Apr 27, 2012
    1,266
    Maryland Born Now in Vermont
    Congrats. Looks like your perseverance finally paid off. Gotta get creative sometimes with these older firearms that just don't have many parts if any available anymore. I know right now I'm working on having a rear sight made up for a parlor rifle I have after looking for one with the right dimensions for 2 years.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    A parlor rifle with a handmade rear sight. It will be an excellent conversation starter. Go ahead and do it; just do not permanently ruin the mount. some day you will find the original rear sight.

    More than 2 years ago, I bought a MAS 49 (Syrian Contract). The seller shipped it without proper protection and broke the plastic charge handle (and failed to compensate for it). I just got a replacement handle from Ebay last month. However, I love my improvised rubber handle I found in my garage so much that I decided to put it away for spare for other MAS rifles in my collection. I know it will be handy someday.

    I got the MH Mrk II last night. It's not from the Nepalese catch and has a lot of stories to tell. Will post the pictures after I finish cleaning it.
     

    SlowShooter

    SeaWaves not TigerStripes
    Dec 28, 2011
    390
    Silver Spring, MD
    Here the pictures of my 2 MH. The top is the Mk2 brought back from Afghanistan. The bottom is one of the rifles came out of Naple.
     

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    pappa

    Member
    Dec 9, 2015
    38
    Longer Lever on Nepal (bottom) Rifle

    Well, I must say , you really do get a lot of pleasure from your attachment to these rifles. I'm 76 and it is good to see; reminds me of earlier days.
    Just wondering why the longer lever on the Nepal rifle.
    Action , looking from the picture, looks like it may be beefier, too. Is it easier to operate, or is the lever also longer on the other side of the fulcrum to accommodate some redesign of the internals?
    Keep enjoying and keep us posted. Pat
     

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