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Old August 12th, 2017, 10:27 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggfoot44 View Post
With good light conditions I use the lower corner of barn roof @ aprox 55yds . The longer distance seems to result in more precise bore sighting.

One time did a M70 @ 95yds . Good boresighting, but required a sandbag rig, and a bullseye target with the black just the right size . At the 50-ish yards I can get away with resting on the windowsill .
Again...

[/THREAD]

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Old August 13th, 2017, 12:15 AM #42
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I now agree with Pine Cones definitions in #31 and 34. I just installed a optical sight on a Ab3 and when I was done I read the manual. No sense reading that before starting right? The manual published by Luepold, uses relatively clear language that reads, after collimating/ bore sighting, Fire a series of shots to print a group, while sighting the rifle adjust point of impact to achieve a Final sight in that sounds just like what he's saying to me. It does also say to a certain effect Reposition adjustment dials to align the marked zero of the dial with the indicator which will allow the shooter to know the original zero in the event further adjustments are made in the field that can be returned to. The instructions indicate sight in first and then establish the zero marker later on under fine adjustments. So as far as Im concerned he's right twice for what I read today.
So what Ill do in daylight, is kick a white volleyball about 100 yds out, set the rifle on some bags with the bolt removed and center the ball in the bore on the lowest power setting and look for an even amount of light in there from a point well behind the butt-stock. If Im really good Ill have my glasses on and get it to rest in the bushes so everything is pretty level and then read some more later on to improve my comprehension for when somebody writes something completely accurate that agrees with published material from a trusted optics manufacturer.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 01:38 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco Overboard View Post
I now agree with Pine Cones definitions in #31 and 34. I just installed a optical sight on a Ab3 and when I was done I read the manual. No sense reading that before starting right? The manual published by Luepold, uses relatively clear language that reads, after collimating/ bore sighting, Fire a series of shots to print a group, while sighting the rifle adjust point of impact to achieve a Final sight in that sounds just like what he's saying to me. It does also say to a certain effect Reposition adjustment dials to align the marked zero of the dial with the indicator which will allow the shooter to know the original zero in the event further adjustments are made in the field that can be returned to. The instructions indicate sight in first and then establish the zero marker later on under fine adjustments. So as far as Im concerned he's right twice for what I read today.
So what Ill do in daylight, is kick a white volleyball about 100 yds out, set the rifle on some bags with the bolt removed and center the ball in the bore on the lowest power setting and look for an even amount of light in there from a point well behind the butt-stock. If Im really good Ill have my glasses on and get it to rest in the bushes so everything is pretty level and then read some more later on to improve my comprehension for when somebody writes something completely accurate that agrees with published material from a trusted optics manufacturer.
Luepold also (makes) correction made a nice magnetic boresighter. That claimed to be able to sight in with one shot.
https://www.leupold.com/gear-and-acc...ed-boresighter

It appears they are discontinued but you might find one. They work well as long as the muzzle crown is perpendicular to the bore.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 04:34 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman View Post
Great question OP.

I didn't read this thread, I'm sure its full of excellent advice.

My 2cents: I just start close with a big piece of paper or cardboard, using moderately priced ammo, not the super cheap stuff that you'll never shoot through a precision rifle. Then as I get it closer and closer, I'll move the target further away, until I'm out to the distance I want to zero. Then switch to better ammo, then ideally the ammo I would actually use. You should be close enough to zero with almost any ammo that is at or near the same weight. In the military we just shot at 25m to zero, and called it a day. I've also tried a buddies laser zero'ing device, that was hard/impossible to see the red dot, I do not recommend.
The hard way.

You could zero a precision rifle at 25 yards. Just adjust distance between POA and POI to be correct. For my .308 load, that would be 0.9 low (impact) at 25 yards.

Also military is only worried about minute of man.

BTW, for a hunting rifle, I would use the maximum point blank range method versus a 100 yard zero.

With MPBR, you set up the rifle so that from the muzzle to some distance, the POI is still within the vital zone. So, for shots out to the MPBR, you just center hold the vital area. No range estimation required. JBM Ballistics allows you to set the vital zone size. For deer, 10 inches is normally used.

For my 308 precision load, the MPBR for a 10 inch vital zone is 321 yards. And the real zero is 273 yards. But you could shoot at 100 yards and set the rifle up for the POI to be 4.1 inches above the point of aim.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 04:46 PM #45
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Aw man, you done it now ! You mentioned PBR.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 07:01 PM #46
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Today we (the boys) sighted two rifles at 100 yds two inches high to get a 250 yd zero. They are 3 inch low at 300 and if DBD's calculations are correct, will be 14" low at 400. They want to be able to hit a 17" vital area on a large deer. I plan to get a whole lot closer. Including volleyball bore sight they expended 17 rounds. One rifle, a pump was bore sighted with a laser bore sighter and the other a bolt action, volleyball with a primer knocked out of an old case that had been drilled out with a 1/8" drill bit.
They wanted 7mm mags to keep them out of the cripples near the river. I like a 7x57 because It doesn't rattle my teeth or give me headache when bench shooting.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 01:01 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
The hard way.

You could zero a precision rifle at 25 yards. Just adjust distance between POA and POI to be correct. For my .308 load, that would be 0.9 low (impact) at 25 yards.

Also military is only worried about minute of man.

BTW, for a hunting rifle, I would use the maximum point blank range method versus a 100 yard zero.

With MPBR, you set up the rifle so that from the muzzle to some distance, the POI is still within the vital zone. So, for shots out to the MPBR, you just center hold the vital area. No range estimation required. JBM Ballistics allows you to set the vital zone size. For deer, 10 inches is normally used.

For my 308 precision load, the MPBR for a 10 inch vital zone is 321 yards. And the real zero is 273 yards. But you could shoot at 100 yards and set the rifle up for the POI to be 4.1 inches above the point of aim.
Exactamundo!

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Old August 15th, 2017, 11:23 AM #48
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Pinecone mentioned a good method. I believe a group using that method would be more reliable than one round. That is how I always did it or any other zeroing method.

Let the games begin...
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Old August 15th, 2017, 01:54 PM #49
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I figure that if I feel the shot was a good one, it is good enough. And the next shot will refine things.

After I get it dialed in, I will typically shoot a group, just to shoot more. And will make any additional minor corrections from that.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 02:23 PM #50
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Adjust the sights/scope to hit where you want with the ammo you intend to use at the distance you expect to do most of your shooting.
IE: Hunting/Target.
Practice with anything you can get your hands on and only worry about group size. POI will change, but group size with practice ammo is all that really matters.
Hunting with Bullet A and practice with Bullet B. Bullet B will not always hit were you want it to, BUT, you will be able to see the pattern. Always 2"low.....?
If you see bullet B POI shifting, you may just have a problem?
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Old August 15th, 2017, 04:11 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalister1 View Post
Adjust the sights/scope to hit where you want with the ammo you intend to use at the distance you expect to do most of your shooting.
IE: Hunting/Target.
Practice with anything you can get your hands on and only worry about group size. POI will change, but group size with practice ammo is all that really matters.
Hunting with Bullet A and practice with Bullet B. Bullet B will not always hit were you want it to, BUT, you will be able to see the pattern. Always 2"low.....?
If you see bullet B POI shifting, you may just have a problem?
^^^This can not be stressed enough. No point in shooting up all your 'plan A' ammo. Shoot your 'plan B and C' ammo to keep sharp once you've established you preferred ammo's zero. It probably won't group as well. That's why it is plan B. I do this all the time.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 04:38 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco Overboard View Post
Today we (the boys) sighted two rifles at 100 yds two inches high to get a 250 yd zero. They are 3 inch low at 300 and if DBD's calculations are correct, will be 14" low at 400. They want to be able to hit a 17" vital area on a large deer. I plan to get a whole lot closer. Including volleyball bore sight they expended 17 rounds. One rifle, a pump was bore sighted with a laser bore sighter and the other a bolt action, volleyball with a primer knocked out of an old case that had been drilled out with a 1/8" drill bit.
They wanted 7mm mags to keep them out of the cripples near the river. I like a 7x57 because It doesn't rattle my teeth or give me headache when bench shooting.
757 is also great for elephants
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Old August 15th, 2017, 06:53 PM #53
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WDM Bell approves .

But seriously 7x57 is an excellent hunting round .
With proper bullet selection it is well suited from deer sized game, up through truely big game . And does so with modest recoil .
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Old August 15th, 2017, 08:11 PM #54
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I learned a tough lesson today. The sights I am using started loosening up after shooting a bunch of rounds. I noticed it after about 40 rounds. I hand tightened it back up but didn't have enough time to keep shooting. I guess I need a different mount or some Loctite.

Does that mean I now have to go through the whole sighting/zero process again?
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Old August 15th, 2017, 08:36 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot25 View Post
I learned a tough lesson today. The sights I am using started loosening up after shooting a bunch of rounds. I noticed it after about 40 rounds. I hand tightened it back up but didn't have enough time to keep shooting. I guess I need a different mount or some Loctite.

Does that mean I now have to go through the whole sighting/zero process again?
Theoretically no. Realistically yes.
Theoretically if you mounted something in a certain place and torqued it to a value and then removed it and retorqued it to the same value and location it "should" hold zero.

But you really need to rezero it.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 08:40 PM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar92 View Post
Theoretically no. Realistically yes.
Theoretically if you mounted something in a certain place and torqued it to a value and then removed it and retorqued it to the same value and location it "should" hold zero.

But you really need to rezero it.
You may be surprised, it may be relatively close to where it was. ^
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Old August 15th, 2017, 10:55 PM #57
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It may or may not end up shooting close to intended when properly torqued. But you will need to shoot it to see . If its still on great, if not then rezero.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 11:18 PM #58
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zero

0. Use laser bore sight to adjust sight and get on paper.
1. Get on paper at 50 yards and zero w/ cheap ammo
2. Repeat at 100 yards and get a group around the bulls eye
3. Shoot 3-5 round groups of different hunting loads to see which ammo your riffle likes and groups the best with. Don't worry about them being away from the bulls eye, pick the tightest grouping ammo, then re-zero using this ammo.
4. If you have a laser bore sighter, record the offset of the red dot once your preferred ammo is zero'ed. Once you travel to your hunting location, verify the red dot location at 100 yards to ensure the scope has not moved w/o having to fire test rounds to confirm zero although it is always best to fire a fouling round at your location to verify zero if you are not worried about disturbing game.
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Old August 16th, 2017, 11:07 AM #59
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After zeroing at whatever distance, say 100 yards, I like to shoot a couple groups at 50 yards or vis versa. I want to determine if there is a windage change relevant to distance. This would allow me to detect any horizonatal deviation of sight/optic and bore centerlines. I find it especially useful on front sights which are drift installed/adjustable.


   
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