AGC 3 Gun Match - Saturday, November 9th

MEGARMS · Oct 28, 2019

Broncolou said:
I shoot with the club that made the Mid Atlantic Ruleset(previously FN Rules) PCC is allowed if the MD does a seperate stage breif for PCC allowing different target engagements. You should prob add this later after you guys get several matches under your belt and a good feel for stage design.It will only add complexity to the match design.
Glad to see another club picking up 3 gun. Good Luck!

Broncolou -Do you know who we could direct questions about the Mid Atlantic Rules to?

danb · Oct 28, 2019

erwos said:
I'm not the match organizer, but I did annoy him quite a bit in the last thread for some answers.

It's not in the rules. It is a bit inexplicable, and essentially makes pump guns a terrible choice in all classes. If you are purely gaming, you're better off just doing 2 gun division than bringing a pump gun (or a semi with a short tube).

Yes.

Yes. Last time I asked, there were no restrictions on using bimetal jacket ammo at the AGC 3 Gun match, which makes it a bit of a unicorn. There is no reason you cannot use 7.62x39 - just make sure it's not steel core.

Please remember that maximum range is like... 50 yards. Holdovers are not going to be a thing, and 308 is just going to weigh you down outside of Heavy Metal.

but when I read the rules, 7.62x39 does not meet the power factor requirement for heavy metal.

MEGARMS · Oct 28, 2019

danb said:
but when I read the rules, 7.62x39 does not meet the power factor requirement for heavy metal.

I literally learn something everyday. Now that you point this out, I see the formula. Care to share the variables so that I don't have to look them up? Thank you.

5.5.3.8 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 320

erwos · Oct 28, 2019

MEGARMS said:
I literally learn something everyday. Now that you point this out, I see the formula. Care to share the variables so that I don't have to look them up? Thank you.

5.5.3.8 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 320

(123*2340)/1000 = 287

However, to be fair, they just asked whether they could use their PTR-32, not whether they could use it in Heavy Metal. (Also, I checked the rules again, and I was wrong - you can use an optic on a rifle in Heavy Metal!)

danb · Oct 28, 2019

MEGARMS said:
I literally learn something everyday. Now that you point this out, I see the formula. Care to share the variables so that I don't have to look them up? Thank you.

5.5.3.8 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 320

erwos said:
(123*2340)/1000 = 287

However, to be fair, they just asked whether they could use their PTR-32, not whether they could use it in Heavy Metal. (Also, I checked the rules again, and I was wrong - you can use an optic on a rifle in Heavy Metal!)

300blk does not meet it either (sad face).

MEGARMS · Oct 28, 2019

danb said:
300blk does not meet it either (sad face).

So, make this easy on me. What does meet the qualification?

Red1917 · Oct 28, 2019

MEGARMS said:
So, make this easy on me. What does meet the qualification?

.30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, .303 British, 7.62x54r, 7.5x55 swiss, to name a few.

For example .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps would be PF = (150*2800)/1000 = 420 power factor

danb · Oct 28, 2019

MEGARMS said:
So, make this easy on me. What does meet the qualification?

I have not really had a chance to think about it. I was only interested in calibers I own.

308, clearly does (say, 147 x 2700/1000=396).

Basically one needs a 125 gr bullet going at least 2560 fps to meet 320 power factor. So, 6.5 Grendel seems in (barely: 125 x 2600fps/1000=325) while 6.8 SPC seems out.

What are some other common cartridges (for AR style rifles) people might bring?

erwos · Oct 28, 2019

458 SOCOM:
(250 * 2150) / 1000 = 537.5

You didn't need more than ten rifle rounds per stage in the last match anyways.

erwos · Oct 28, 2019

danb said:
Basically one needs a 125 gr bullet going at least 2560 fps to meet 320 power factor. So, 6.5 Grendel seems in (barely: 125 x 2600fps/1000=325) while 6.8 SPC seems out.

Floor is .30 cal, so 6.5 Grendel is out due to being .264 diameter. You'd also need a 24"-26" barrel to make those velocities.

danb · Oct 28, 2019

erwos said:
Floor is .30 cal, so 6.5 Grendel is out due to being .264 diameter. You'd also need a 24"-26" barrel to make those velocities.

good point, forgot.

Art3 · Oct 28, 2019

erwos said:
(123*2340)/1000 = 287

However, to be fair, they just asked whether they could use their PTR-32, not whether they could use it in Heavy Metal. (Also, I checked the rules again, and I was wrong - you can use an optic on a rifle in Heavy Metal!)

Correct. I asked because in some of the early days of AGC action shooting there were rifle restrictions (I specifically remember No AK's). It is my understanding that they wanted to steer everyone to AR's because...well...everyone was familiar with AR's. It made it easy to see that the rifle was clear or when the safety was on. (In the even earlier days, I once ran a Garand, with which the young RSO was not familar at all. He basically said, "Uhh...ok, just make sure you use the safety, if that thing even has one").

I like non-AR's :shrug:

But, I also have AR's. Down the road, I'd love to explore non-AR options, but, to simplify things now, I'll gladly just bring an AR.

Red1917 said:
.30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, .303 British, 7.62x54r, 7.5x55 swiss, to name a few.

For example .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps would be PF = (150*2800)/1000 = 420 power factor

Ooooooohhhhh...I don't have a trench gun (yet), but a SMLE and 1911 could be a fun retro 2gun combination :tap:

We'll see how things develop between now and then. I'll probably plan on bringing an AR as backup if need be to keep it simple for everyone. No worries

I do appreciate the discussion. These threads are about all of us figuring it out together, right?

MEGARMS · Nov 2, 2019

Bump. We are one week away and still have a couple of handfuls of slots open.

We just bought a bunch of new props and this match is going to be heavy on Shotgun.

Get your name on the list if you haven't done so already.

https://practiscore.com/associated-gun-clubs-3-gun-nov-9-2019-clone/register

Bikebreath · Nov 2, 2019

The “12 hours later” bump.

Ecestu · Nov 3, 2019

In the Tactical Limited division, what does it mean for a Handgun holster to be in a practical/tactical carry style? Thanks.

MEGARMS · Nov 3, 2019

Ecestu said:
In the Tactical Limited division, what does it mean for a Handgun holster to be in a practical/tactical carry style? Thanks.

1. I would like to thank you for reading the rules so carefully. This is a really good catch that I have never picked up on before. It looks like both Tactical and Heavy Metal have this same verbiage in their Holster requirement while the others do not.

2. I have no idea what the answer is here. My guess is that the authors intended to remove that verbiage from all of the division and forgot to do so on these two.

3. I can tell you this; as long as your holster meets the following, then you will be good to go with us.

….....must safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement. The holster material must completely cover the trigger on all semiautomatic pistols. Revolver holsters must completely cover the trigger and the cylinder. The belt upon which the handgun holster is attached must be worn at waist level. Shoulder holsters and cross draw holsters are prohibited.

GolfR · Nov 3, 2019

Ecestu said:
In the Tactical Limited division, what does it mean for a Handgun holster to be in a practical/tactical carry style? Thanks.

I’m in no way an authority on the rules but I would interpret this as disallowing race holsters where this is mentioned.

Ecestu · Nov 3, 2019

MEGARMS said:
1. I would like to thank you for reading the rules so carefully. This is a really good catch that I have never picked up on before. It looks like both Tactical and Heavy Metal have this same verbiage in their Holster requirement while the others do not.

2. I have no idea what the answer is here. My guess is that the authors intended to remove that verbiage from all of the division and forgot to do so on these two.

3. I can tell you this; as long as your holster meets the following, then you will be good to go with us.

….....must safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement. The holster material must completely cover the trigger on all semiautomatic pistols. Revolver holsters must completely cover the trigger and the cylinder. The belt upon which the handgun holster is attached must be worn at waist level. Shoulder holsters and cross draw holsters are prohibited.

Understood. Thanks for the explanation.

jimbobborg · Nov 3, 2019

Not that I can make it this year, but for HM I've used my M1a, which was purchased last year. Can I still use it, or am I going to have to not shoot HM?

Slim · Nov 5, 2019

MEGARMS said:
We just bought a bunch of new props and this match is going to be heavy on Shotgun.

Apologies in advance to everyone in my squad standing there as I struggle to single-load my 870... :lol2:

AGC 3 Gun Match - Saturday, November 9th

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