old timer in his ways

I could count my dear kills on both hands but only one that "dropped" was with a crossbow. It was about 1 1/2 years old. all my archery kills were the bloodiest.
To date I have only taken double lung shots.
Second bloodiest would be 50 cal muzzle loader. I was at a hunting camp in Tx this fall and the Guide said "don't count on any of these big bucks to drop for at least 30 yards or more"
Maybe your old timer was only hunting yearlings?

I've shot deer with compound, crossbow, .223, 30-30, .270 and .50 cal muzzle. It really depends on shot placement and sometimes the deer. I've dropped a deer where they stood with everything expect the crossbow. Most times they dropped it's because I hit part of the spine or because the shot went thru the center of the heart. This year I double lunged a deer with the muzzleoader and he made it about 50 yards before falling over. In rifle season I shot a 7 pt, good double lung hit that took out a small portion of the top of the heart. He ran 40-50 yards after I shot and just stood there like nothing was wrong, so I shot him again, this time he dropped as I just clipped the bottom part of the spine in the neck area. In my experience some deer are tougher than others, but shot placement is key. To me a 300 is on the large size for deer, however you have your reasons for using it, so that's your choice. My .270 is my go to gun and it tears up some meat depending on shot placement. I've thought about going with a .243 to try and prevent some meat lose, but if and when I ever have a chance at the buck of a lifetime I want to make sure I have enough gun encase my shot placement is off from buck fever.

GSuders said:

My .270 is my go to gun and it tears up some meat depending on shot placement. I've thought about going with a .243 to try and prevent some meat lose, but if and when I ever have a chance at the buck of a lifetime I want to make sure I have enough gun encase my shot placement is off from buck fever.

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My first rifle was a 270 and I have shot a ton of deer with it mainly shooting Core Loks

My late brother gave my his 243 before he passed.Between me, my grand son,and my niece,there has been 15 -20 deer shot with that rifle shooting SSTs,Partitions and TTSX bullets.

I cant see any difference between the two calibers with deer reaction to the shots,( die right there or run or stagger a little ways)penetration or meat damage,except the TTSXs definitely leave less blood shot meat if you stay off bone.

If a buck of a lifetime showed up when I have a 243,being undergunned would never enter my mind

Just brush him off and use what you are comfy with.

I will say a shooting buddy of mine(who knows his shit) told me to use the 85gr bergers in .243 and also stated they drop on the spot 99% of the time. Hydrostatic shock might have something to do with it. I'm going to give it a shot at some point, just no time for me to work up a load right now. Bullet selection on the 300WM is key, as other have stated, they might just zip through without expanding much depending on bullet.

I know I go against the grain, but I'd never feel undergunned on a whitetail with a .243 or most 6mm bullets.

My second deer this year was early muzzleloader. Hit it in the front shoulder and blew it out. Deer still ran 40 yards before it fell over.

Third deer with my 270 double lung and it fell right over and never moved.

Fourth deer with my granddads 30-06 dropped on the spot and never moved. Hit that one front center.

Most of the time they will run a bit but for some reason this year they are falling right over. My buddy took a buck with my 270 and it ran a while and he hit it right through the heart.

Guess it depends on the individual deer and it’s response to the shot.

I know a few guys that use 300WM rifles. I don’t see a problem.

All the previous posts are spot on. I reserve my 300 win mag for bear, elk etc. and don't use it on deer to preserve meat. I've seen 300 win mag and 7mm mag double lung drop 'em in thier tracks due to hydrostatic shock but tend to make a bigger mess than a smaller caliber HV bullet or a nice slow bigger caliber bullet..

My favorite WT rounds are 25.06 and 6.5 Swede. I don't do heart shots anymore because once the pump is destroyed, the blood trail can be very sparse compared to a double lung shot. I've had numerous hard to track deer go > 100 yards with a blown up heart and lungs. YMMV.

Moorvogi said:

aparently i'm using the wrong gun or hunting the wrong deer... there was a guy at the range this weekend that insisted that a 300 win mag is no good for deer hunting. sure it's a bit much but it hasn't failed yet.

I use a 300 win mag because i'm color blind and cant track a blood trail so it has to die.. quick. He went on to say that if i used an 80gr 6mm bullet they would drop on the spot, every time.

I've only shot about 30 deer in my short hunting carrier but i've only had 3 drop on the spot. typically when you blow out the shoulder and it turns the shoulder into bone shrapnel inside. he then proceeded to tell me that the meat is ruined at that point.

he said if i get a double lung and heart shot it'll drop ON THE SPOT. insisted on it.. got quite angry that i wouldn't accept that as FACT. haha.. i told him to hold is breath and run as far as he can before he blacks out.. this simulates the lungs not working and thus oxygen not getting to the brain. he's going to make it more that. 10 yards. he refused to see the connection.

i even offered to hunt his deer because clearly i'm hunting the wrong ones.. he didn't see the humor.

I was raised to not walk away from someone speaking to you, especially your elders. my question is what is the "nice way" to say "yep. okay. have a nice day."

PS: i'm a bit of an introvert so.. social interaction w/ "know it all" type people is.. challenging.

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Yup, okay. Have a nice day.

That’s the nice way to say it.

The slightly less nice way is, “I appreciate the advise, but I’ll keep doing what I have as it’s been working well for me.”

One bit of correction, holding your breath isn’t remotely like blowing your lungs out. What overwhelms you is CO2 build up, not lack of oxygen. If your lungs flooded you’d be unconscious in about 6-10 seconds. Faster at higher exertion levels.

Generally it takes at least a few seconds even with a big hole through both lungs to flood them with blood and even if they can’t breath, there is some amount of air allowing O2-CO2 exchange.

But typically with a good bit you are talking around 15-30 seconds before they are unconscious and not long after dead.

A little shorter with a heart shot.

That said instant death depends on hitting the heart or close enough to cause severe trauma right as the heart is contracting. The shockwave travels through the cardiovascular system and causes brain hemorrhage. It also takes a projectile moving at fairly high velocity. IIRC you are taking >>2000fps.

Is you might get a DRT where it drops over from shock and/or an incapacitating injury like a shattered shoulder(s) or spine where it can’t recover and dies from the injuries in very short order.

Since I am not color blind (my dad is, I feel for you) Me personally, I prefer a double lung hit. Tends to leave a lot of blood, they don’t seem to run as hard, as fast and drop quick. Heart shot they seem to run harder, though drop a little faster.

Though actually my three shortest tracks was my first deer ever that was double lunged with a .44 XTP from my muzzleloader. Went less than 30yds before dropping. Spine shot a doe the next year that dropped on the spot. Next was a fawn I neck shot this fall. Managed about 15 yds total, though had to shoot it a second time in the neck.

Furthest I’ve had one go was one I heart shot with my ML loader. Sucker sprinted about 100yds on a bee line straight away from me. Took me 30 minutes to find it in open woods.

Most of my archery shots have gone about 50-75yds.

Archery is growing on me. I’d prefer something like a 6.5 Grendel or my muzzleloader. The ML is kind of nice because it leaves a pretty good sized hole, but doesn’t have the velocity to destroy a ton of meat. A shotgun just obliterates a ton (at least rifled slugs). Rifles can to. At least higher velocity ones and larger caliber high velocity ones.

Arrows...tend not to damage much beyond the hole itself. But a lot more to worry about with shot pal emend and what not.

That said I took a long shot on a buck this year and it moved. Ended up hitting it in the butt. (Well, read hams). Went through it’s kidneys. Dropped it there, it thrashed a couple seconds, managed to get back up, trotted a short distance and then slow walked in to the woods and later down about 50yds from where I shot it. I waited 20 minutes and when I went looking for it with my son I found it after about a minute by a fallen tree, it looked over it shoulder at me with its last breath and died. Most blood I’ve ever seen. Glad I didn’t pressure it. Probably would have died sooner...and probably not on my property or any of the surrounding ones I have permission to hunt or retrieve on.

Anyway, I love archery because it means I can hunt on my 4.4 acres and a couple neighbors small properties. Also that I get to hunt for 5 months for deer.

If I could do that (safely) with a rifle I wouldn’t think twice about just using a rifle.

lazarus said:

Yup, okay. Have a nice day.

redacted a lot to save space in reply

If I could do that (safely) with a rifle I wouldn’t think twice about just using a rifle.

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thats the other thing.. i'm in carol county.. with a crop damage permit so i use a rifle YEAR ROUND. 88 acre farm to control population on.

My theory...
Use what you like that is legal. If you enjoy it, are more accurrate with it, or just plain wanna use it, well, then have fun. I like to include people in the sport and the fun of it. All of these little "my way is better than your way" discussions is how the antis divide and conquer. Never really felt much of a problem if a deer that was too dead. I've definately tracked a bunch that were too alive.

I've dropped deer with 30-30 blue box ammo. I also have used .243 and I am pretty deadly with it. You do you. Remember, these old guys are hanging out that range for a reason, they have nothing better to do and their wives kicked them out for a few hours to get some peace themselves.

huesmann said:

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Biggest problem though is if they say “I’ll help you scratch them if you’d like”.

I mean, now the shoes on the other foot. How do you respond to that?