U.N. Small Arms Treaty...BS?

Bikebreath · Jan 23, 2020

In the back of my head I know the U.N. is an outside entity and should have no effect on our Second Amendment. There's always been conspiracy theories and I just laugh it off.

Yesterday I got a letter from Rand Paul who wants my help, (and my money) to stop the Senate from accepting the U.N. Small Arms Treaty. I wonder now, that I've gotten this letter from Paul, that maybe there's something I'm missing. Is is possible for the U.N. to have any say over our Constitution? It's just more fear mongering, right?

Sundazes · Jan 23, 2020

If I am not mistaken, back in the Obama era, there was talk of US adopting the UN Small Arms BS. It didn't go very far. I am sure someone will be along shortly to elaborate.

Skipjacks · Jan 23, 2020

The UN is welcome to come try and enforce their rules.

But they would need the US armed forces to do it since that's who they always use for such things.

And the US armed forces can't conduct action on American soil without the President canceling posse comatadis (yeah I know that is spelled wrong...if you saw how badly I did in Latin class you'd be impressed I got it that close)

So anyway...good luck to the UN....

Alea Jacta Est · Jan 23, 2020

I paint all my hanging steel plates baby blue...because it shows up really well in the woods...

Seagrave1963 · Jan 23, 2020

Nnztg8r said:
I paint all my hanging steel plates baby blue...because it shows up really well in the woods...

Brooklyn Gun Guy · Jan 23, 2020

I refer you to the current situation in Va. These yahoos are dead serious.

JerseyMike · Jan 23, 2020

I’m not familiar with this treaty or where it stands procedurally, but I’ll give a quick and dirty explanation for anyone who is interested in how international agreements can impact us domestically.

International treaties that the United States has ratified can have the binding effect of a law domestically under two circumstances. A treaty can only be ratified after a 2/3 vote in the Senate.

1) The treaty is “self-executing”. This isn’t really a straightforward concept, but if the treaty has definite language (i.e. “shall have liberty to...” or “shall receive”) or it creates or enforces individual rights. Even if the treaty
contains these aspects, at the time it is ratified by the US the Executive Branch could state it is not self-executing, and that would likely mean it is not self-executing.
2) An Act of Congress is passed to “implement” the treaty.

Take a look at Medllin v. Texas, 554 U.S. 759 (2008) if you want to read more.

Obviously, this is not legal advice and should not be taken as such. If you have a specific question for a specific situation you should hire and consult with a licensed attorney!

jrumann59 · Jan 23, 2020

100% of the Senate could pass it but it is an invalid Treaty since it violates the US Constitution.

Bikebreath · Jan 23, 2020

Nnztg8r said:
I paint all my hanging steel plates baby blue...because it shows up really well in the woods...

teratos · Jan 23, 2020

jrumann59 said:
100% of the Senate could pass it but it is an invalid Treaty since it violates the US Constitution.

This is all you need to know.

inkd · Jan 23, 2020

It's a good scare tactic for raising money. It worked for the NRA and now it looks like Rand Paul is getting in on it too.

There are reasons that the treaty is a bad idea. But, not for the reasons they are portraying it.

onedash · Jan 23, 2020

Obama signed it but the senate didn't ratify it. I thought Trump withdrew (terminology?) from it a year ago -ish so a future senate couldn't ratify it.

onedash · Jan 23, 2020

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/26/717547741/trump-moves-to-withdraw-u-s-from-u-n-arms-trade-treaty

PowPow · Jan 23, 2020

onedash said:
Obama signed it but the senate didn't ratify it. I thought Trump withdrew (terminology?) from it a year ago -ish so a future senate couldn't ratify it.

Obama did not sign it, but he had Sec. of State John "Bolt-neck" Kerry sign it on his behalf. Yes, President Trump withdrew us from it so a future Senate could not ratify it.

Bikebreath · Jan 24, 2020

jrumann59 said:
100% of the Senate could pass it but it is an invalid Treaty since it violates the US Constitution.

This is always how I believed, but I don't need to tell you that here in MD legislators have violated it "legally"...ie; The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed.

PowPow said:
Obama did not sign it, but he had Sec. of State John "Bolt-neck" Kerry sign it on his behalf. Yes, President Trump withdrew us from it so a future Senate could not ratify it.

I get that Rand asking for my help and my $$$ is mostly a money grab, but let me quote the letter from Rand below and you tell me if you are right or he is, please.

I know you may have seen President trumps announcement of his opposition to the gun grabbers gun control crown jewel (he is referring to the U.N. Treaty) and asking the US Senate to send it back to the White House where he pledged to “dispose of” the treaty.

That was certainly great news— the result of months of consistent pressure from Second Amendment supporters like you.

But if the US Senate won’t comply with the Presidents wishes, it won’t matter one bit.

I did not add the bold.

PowPow · Jan 24, 2020

Obama had Bolt-neck sign the UN ATT on 9/25/13. He sent it to the Senate for ratification in Dec 2016. Here is a source.

As for where it stands today, President Trump did his part on stage at the last annual NRA meeting on 4/26/2019. I really could not find anything after that, so it appears to be trickling through to its final resting place in the U.N. dumper. I don't know if that means the added bold in your quote of the letter is true or false. It took Obama over 3 years to send it for ratification, so it might take some time to undo that process.

However, I've gotten those Rand mailings from NAGR for years. I won't give NAGR (Dudley Brown) any of my $$$. Here is an example: https://www.nagr.org/2018/918_UNgunban-p.aspx

Occam · Jan 24, 2020

If that really is a copy/paste blurb from Rand Paul, he seriously needs to get someone to help him with things like capitalization and punctuation.

Bikebreath · Jan 24, 2020

Occam said:
If that really is a copy/paste blurb from Rand Paul, he seriously needs to get someone to help him with things like capitalization and punctuation.

I dictated it exactly as I read it an edited it...I am a piss poor editor.

Bikebreath · Jan 24, 2020

PowPow said:
Obama had Bolt-neck sign the UN ATT on 9/25/13. He sent it to the Senate for ratification in Dec 2016. Here is a source.

As for where it stands today, President Trump did his part on stage at the last annual NRA meeting on 4/26/2019. I really could not find anything after that, so it appears to be trickling through to its final resting place in the U.N. dumper. I don't know if that means the added bold in your quote of the letter is true or false. It took Obama over 3 years to send it for ratification, so it might take some time to undo that process.

However, I've gotten those Rand mailings from NAGR for years. I won't give NAGR (Dudley Brown) any of my $$$. Here is an example: [B]https://www.nagr.org/2018/918_UN...d name to better and less frightful bullsh!t.

Boats · Jan 24, 2020

jrumann59 said:
100% of the Senate could pass it but it is an invalid Treaty since it violates the US Constitution.

when has that ever stopped them? just wait the 6-forever months for the supreme Court to verify what we already know....maybe....depends who appointed them.

meanwhile, us rabble are the ones with forfeited assets, jail time, and ruined lives....none of which are vacated or pardoned when (eventually, if ever) the SCOTUS actually does their job.

U.N. Small Arms Treaty...BS?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

R.I.P.

Throbbing Member

Ultimate Member

Extinguished member

Still learnin'

Member

Active Member

DILLIGAF

R.I.P.

My hair is amazing

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Where's the beef?

R.I.P.

Where's the beef?

Not Even ONE Indictment

R.I.P.

R.I.P.

Broken Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics