Does a Trust Make Sense?

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  • virtus

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 11, 2010
    1,493
    I'm looking to order my first suppressor so I've been doing lots of reading. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure I would benefit from a trust. No one else will have use of this suppressor (or future purchases). If anything, maybe Silencer Shop's "Single Shot" trust could be useful in the future if I wanted someone to have access to an item....they would just be added to the trust containing that single item. Are there benefits of a trust that I'm overlooking?
     

    JohnnyE

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 18, 2013
    9,459
    MoCo
    I'm looking to order my first suppressor so I've been doing lots of reading. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure I would benefit from a trust. No one else will have use of this suppressor (or future purchases). If anything, maybe Silencer Shop's "Single Shot" trust could be useful in the future if I wanted someone to have access to an item....they would just be added to the trust containing that single item. Are there benefits of a trust that I'm overlooking?

    I went through the same analysis myself, but the reason why I went the trust route is the reality that I cannot predict the future. I may want to lend an item to someone who will be a friend in the future, so I like the flexibility a trust offers. Also, whatever toys I have when I die will pass along outside of probate. That's always a plus for the heirs. I don't know what I'll have on that day, but it's more than I had a few years ago. :innocent0
     

    sundaeman

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 16, 2008
    998
    If you travel with a spouse (or other trustee) and a NFA item you get some CYA coverage. When you're traveling and leave a item technically under control of the spouse/trustee you're covered. When you keel over no extra paperwork on the NFA items until someone is ready to transfer ownership.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    If you travel with a spouse (or other trustee) and a NFA item you get some CYA coverage. When you're traveling and leave a item technically under control of the spouse/trustee you're covered. When you keel over no extra paperwork on the NFA items until someone is ready to transfer ownership.

    This is a load of... just something else dreamed up to sell trusts. The idea that leaving a NFA item at home somehow transfers it to your spouse it just BS. Long before there were trusts and gun safes everywhere, plenty of NFA MGs were in homes since the 1930s with the person on the paperwork away for long periods of time.

    I bet divorced wives claim they own 50% of MGs under the law! I wonder how that works.

    I feel the best reason to get a trust is to give access to the NFA item to others who you trust. I have boys, and one day I will add them. I could add some trusted friends...etc

    Finally I would add... why not a new trust for each NFA item? I have 4 suppressors on 4 different trusts and why not? A bit of extra paperwork. However I can now put exactly who I want on each item. Why? Well estate planning but also I will give access to a $500 Suppressor to many people I trust. I might not trust all of them with a $20K machine gun. When I go, the boys can go on this trust and not that trust and my collection can be split without issue. There are a few more good reasons...

    That said it sucks you can't get a C&R NFA item on a trust!
     

    virtus

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 11, 2010
    1,493
    Finally I would add... why not a new trust for each NFA item? I have 4 suppressors on 4 different trusts and why not? A bit of extra paperwork. However I can now put exactly who I want on each item. Why? Well estate planning but also I will give access to a $500 Suppressor to many people I trust. I might not trust all of them with a $20K machine gun. When I go, the boys can go on this trust and not that trust and my collection can be split without issue. There are a few more good reasons..

    I'm thinking I'll go this route. Have you used a service on a specific website to set up each trust? Handle the paperwork and file on your own? Deal with a lawyer?
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,642
    MoCo
    That said it sucks you can't get a C&R NFA item on a trust!
    Yes you can. I have some C&R items in my trust. I think you meant to say you can't have your trust get its own C&R license to transfer C&R items to it directly and skip the dealer & form 3 stuff. Of course you can also transfer it to yourself w/ your C&R, then once in possession file paperwork (and another $200 stamp) to transfer it into the trust. The C&R items I've bought I've gone though a dealer. While waiting the approximate year for the form 4 to clear, I'd *MUCH* rather have it sitting at my dealer than an unknown private seller in another state. If it was a well known dealer selling it I might do it differently.
     

    Robertjeter

    Active Member
    May 11, 2018
    460
    Eastern Shore, MD
    I'm thinking I'll go this route. Have you used a service on a specific website to set up each trust? Handle the paperwork and file on your own? Deal with a lawyer?



    Would almost always recommend using an attorney. Every state is different, and laws/interpretations change frequently as everyone on this forum well knows.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    I'm thinking I'll go this route. Have you used a service on a specific website to set up each trust? Handle the paperwork and file on your own? Deal with a lawyer?

    Mine did come from a lawyer but thats a new issue in itself. I feel like few lawyers have adjusted to the new rules on NFA trusts. What they did before does not makes sense. I would make sure you get a file you can change on your own. Sorry, I don't have anyone to suggest.

    Yes you can. I have some C&R items in my trust. I think you meant to say you can't have your trust get its own C&R license to transfer C&R items to it directly and skip the dealer & form 3 stuff. Of course you can also transfer it to yourself w/ your C&R, then once in possession file paperwork (and another $200 stamp) to transfer it into the trust. The C&R items I've bought I've gone though a dealer. While waiting the approximate year for the form 4 to clear, I'd *MUCH* rather have it sitting at my dealer than an unknown private seller in another state. If it was a well known dealer selling it I might do it differently.

    Yes, thats what I was getting at. That I can't get a C&R transfer using my C&R license to a trust. It must come to me.

    So normally, if on a form 4 out of state... you must wait a year to transfer to your dealer and another year to you as both are form 4s! So this cuts the time in half and its still at the sellers house for all that time either way.

    Now if an out of stater dealer has it on a form 3... then it might make some sense but its still going to cost more and take longer not using the C&R. Soon all MGs will be C&R and dealers will not have to worry about it anymore. With the insurance cost going up on the value of these guns, I think they will be ok with it.

    I bet in 20 years, all MGs will be on C&R transfers and no MGs will still be on trusts. When a transfer costs as much as a tax stamp, you are just going to stop using the dealers for it and get C&R licenses.
     

    sundaeman

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 16, 2008
    998
    This is a load of... just something else dreamed up to sell trusts. The idea that leaving a NFA item at home somehow transfers it to your spouse it just BS. Long before there were trusts and gun safes everywhere, plenty of NFA MGs were in homes since the 1930s with the person on the paperwork away for long periods of time.

    I bet divorced wives claim they own 50% of MGs under the law! I wonder how that works.

    I feel the best reason to get a trust is to give access to the NFA item to others who you trust. I have boys, and one day I will add them. I could add some trusted friends...etc

    Finally I would add... why not a new trust for each NFA item? I have 4 suppressors on 4 different trusts and why not? A bit of extra paperwork. However I can now put exactly who I want on each item. Why? Well estate planning but also I will give access to a $500 Suppressor to many people I trust. I might not trust all of them with a $20K machine gun. When I go, the boys can go on this trust and not that trust and my collection can be split without issue. There are a few more good reasons...

    That said it sucks you can't get a C&R NFA item on a trust!

    I wasn't referring a NFA item in the house because I was traveling. I was referring to when we were travelling out of state with NFA items.

    I'd venture a guess that there is someone on MDS who know how the %50 claim on a MG works.

    I encourage my wife to hit the range if she feels so inclined. She needs to be on the trust for that.

    I do like the multiple trust idea.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    I wasn't referring a NFA item in the house because I was traveling. I was referring to when we were travelling out of state with NFA items.

    I'd venture a guess that there is someone on MDS who know how the %50 claim on a MG works.

    I encourage my wife to hit the range if she feels so inclined. She needs to be on the trust for that.

    I do like the multiple trust idea.

    Oh, I did not pick up on that. That said I don't see how traveling out of state would put it under her control?


    Yeah if she is going to the range without you and taking the gun... yeah.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Well, ATF Rule 41f/41p did away with some of the biggest reasons for having a trust. I got my trust in place before 41f/41p went into effect and filed a bunch of Form 1's. However, we have had another child since then. My trust does not take into account the 4th child and I am not sure I am going to add her. It will depend on how things shake out over the years. As already mentioned, the trust provides some flexibility in the future and it also avoids probate. As my wife and I get older, I think we will use an inter vivos trust to move most of our stuff to our children so they receive most of it outside of probate, but that is an entirely different subject.

    Is a trust a good idea? Answer is it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
     

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