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  • Nanook

    F-notso-NG-anymore
    While I'm all about the sanctity of life, when you (and especially with a group of folks) intentionally try to roll up on somebody, all bets are off. A punch into a critical area with an unknown and/or previous condition and that could be all she wrote. The odds go up if sticks, knives, or guns get introduced - and we all just know for a fact that the teenage yutes always get a HQL, buy a registered firearm at a FFL, etc, etc, etc (/SARCASM). At the point where you offer violence to another, in my book, you cease being a human being and instantly transition into being a threat target.

    From what I can see, that would have been a justified shooting due to the rapidly closing group of folks with 'unknown but most likely nefarious intent'. Then again, IANAL.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    I don't know. While a group certainly is proof of disparity of force, without a weapon being produced, I'm not sure what would be appropriate for use of deadly force.

    Remember the no retreat law in MD only applies in your home.

    This is the conundrum CCW carriers face if confronted.

    Very complicated.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    No retreat is in and around your home. With a gang of 4, you are unable to retreat. Shooting the 3rd and 4th would be the hard part.
     

    Steve_Zissou

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 11, 2017
    1,042
    Baltimore City
    I don't know. While a group certainly is proof of disparity of force, without a weapon being produced, I'm not sure what would be appropriate for use of deadly force.

    Remember the no retreat law in MD only applies in your home.

    This is the conundrum CCW carriers face if confronted.

    Very complicated.

    This is why carry laws are meaningless without stand your ground laws.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    No retreat is in and around your home. With a gang of 4, you are unable to retreat.

    That was my thought on watching this. If it has progressed even a little further, the would-be victim would have been surrounded and in a tight spot. He prevented that from happening by presenting a persuasive deterrent and acting like he meant it. The video plainly shows it, but it's a reminder how, if he'd actually had to shoot and there was no video, he could have easily been railroaded here in MD.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Even with video, I'd be nervous. The video does not show what might happen, only what did happen. That's my concern. You never know how a jury will view your ability to retreat, because if you could have run away and they view you as not doing that, you might be in deep trouble.

    When I viewed the video, the perps are across the street, with one coming across from across the street while one seemed to circled around the back. A lot of variables here.

    Don't forget a jury will be made up of people from similar backgrounds. That might or might not work in your favor.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    This is exactly why there are stats showing hundreds of thousands of cases a year of people using their firearms to protect themselves. Shots rarely are or ever had to have been fired for armed self defense to change the outcome of a would-be assault.

    Notice this lefty's instinct to keep his truck in between himself and the predator, just in case the guy he got the jump on (or his buddy, in the street) never the less might still have a gun to pull out. Very glad for the guy on defense that it didn't have to escalate, though the predator sure seemed ready to make that happen before he was properly confronted. Dang.

    Exactly. The surveys and studies done show something like 90-95% of DGU involve production of the firearm and it ends there. In cases where it doesn’t, those 5-10% the firearm is discharged one or more times. Even though is is a crap idea, about 60-70% of people claim they don’t attempt to aim at the person (I don’t mean snap shot, I mean they are attempting a warning shot). Of those who intend to shot the aggressor, only about 30% of them Connect. Of those that connect about 60% survive.

    That’s how you get from a few hundred civilian justified homicides a year to a couple hundred thousand DGUs.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    What is a "DGU"?

    "Defensive Gun Use" - that broad category of defensive actions that involve using a gun. Statistically, the vast majority of them don't involve ever firing a shot. But if you pull/brandish a gun to help save your hide or defuse a threatening situation, you've just done a DGU. Most gun grabber types are either unaware of the huge number of these incidents or (more realistically) are desperate to avoid talking about them because (lacking dead bodies) it doesn't fuel their narrative.
     

    nedsurf

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 8, 2013
    2,204
    The trailing accomplices show the intent for the first to tangle him up then for the rest to pile on.
     

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