PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

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  • dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    Is the review board part of MSP? If so are they part of the permit section? Just trying to get an idea if they know how this is being handle and if they are expecting to get a lot of these returned.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    Is the review board part of MSP? If so are they part of the permit section? Just trying to get an idea if they know how this is being handle and if they are expecting to get a lot of these returned.

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=maryland+handgun+permit+review+board&l=1

    Just kidding with the link, btw, in a humorous mood this morning. From the end result of that link:

    The Governor appoints the Board's five members from the general public to three-year terms with Senate advice and consent (Article 27, §36E).

    From that, I assumed they were created as an civilian oversight program, outside of the direct control of the MSP but acting as agents of the Governor.
     

    dlmcbm

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 5, 2011
    1,207
    Sabillasville, Md.
    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=maryland+handgun+permit+review+board&l=1

    Just kidding with the link, btw, in a humorous mood this morning. From the end result of that link:



    From that, I assumed they were created as an civilian oversight program, outside of the direct control of the MSP but acting as agents of the Governor.

    Thanks google is my friend.

    So what you are saying is.... The (anti gun)Governor appoints the Board's five (anti gun) members from the general public to three-year terms with (anti gun) Senate advice and consent (Article 27, §36E). :)
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    So, let's see:
    The Governor appoints the five board members.
    Let's assume that the Governor supports gun control.
    What way do you think the board members would lean on an issue?

    Towards their own good selves, I would suggest.

    Once the stay is lifted and/or the ruling affirmed, they are each individually responsible for denials of a civil right. If they are listening to personal lawyers - not the AG's office - then they know this.

    There are only two reasons the state is returning these apps: they want to thumb their noses at the court and hurt their chances; or they desperately want to stop people from getting into that review board.

    If we assume the people who make the calls are logical actors (even is we disagree with their logic), then the only thing I can think they are doing is taking a hit on one side to prevent a bigger hit somewhere else. Right now the only other "hit" I can see would come from that board.

    We'll know soon. People are demanding reviews from the board for these denials. If I am anywhere close to correct, we'll see significant resistance to letting people get in front of that board. If I am wrong, everyone will get their hearing and their denial.

    I don't think the board members are currently at risk if they deny a permit, but here's the thing about laws: if they involve confusion and argument, they will end up in court. And it turns out that this kind of civil rights law results in argument that cause the individuals involved great stress.

    Were I on this board, I would have quit right around the second week of March.

    I think the reason we are seeing these apps returned is to prevent people from going to that board as a result of being denied or from not having their app acted upon by 90 days. I cannot see any other logical reason they are making such dumb moves while seeking favor from a court that partly requires the court to ascertain whether the state's request will affect people whose right are being denied. Throwing up a speed-bump to applicants or thinking that most would never re-apply if told to go away does not justify the risk. Of course, the state leaders could be reading the applicant wave the wrong way and thinking the applicants "just don't know".

    Or they are having an illogical hissy fit. In that case, why didn't they just deny everybody outright instead of refunding money?

    Many questions. Answers will become more apparent as we see how they react next.
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    Because it would screw up their "statistics"? We almost WANTED that, and were encouraged to apply for EXACTLY that reason. I don't think we saw THIS coming.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Because it would screw up their "statistics"? We almost WANTED that, and were encouraged to apply for EXACTLY that reason. I don't think we saw THIS coming.

    We all know the "statistics" were nothing more than a sham... a sleight-of-hand to prevent people from peeking behind the curtain to see the real issue...

    They simply do not want people to apply for--and especially not to get--permits.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    I don't think stats are the issue right now. For one thing, it would take more time to get those numbers than exist between now and the time they could be used in the stay briefings. And blatantly refusing to process applications throws their numerical claims in the tank. They know this.

    It's something else.

    It could be as simple as not understanding how concerted we are; or even thinking "slow them down any way possible". Or it could be concern that letting the process play out would result in permits being awarded. In any case, they are breaking law by doing what they are doing. That's not a casual thing, even for this bunch.

    We don't know. Theories are just that. Time will tell where those stand.
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    We all know the "statistics" were nothing more than a sham... a sleight-of-hand to prevent people from peeking behind the curtain to see the real issue...

    They simply do not want people to apply for--and especially not to get--permits.

    Oh WE know that....but they were hinging on it, so to destroy it would be beautiful.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Oh WE know that....but they were hinging on it, so to destroy it would be beautiful.

    Already done in by their actions. The letters remove credibility that their affirmation rate has any meaning. No logical review of their process would survive even minimal scrutiny.

    They abandoned the high-approval rate claim.
     

    Glaug-Eldare

    Senior Member
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 17, 2011
    1,837
    Yes they do, it was on CSI and therefore must be true.

    Honestly, to my simple mind, it would seem smart if they did carry a round that was not going to T&T a perp and then penetrate the aircraft as well.

    Thread drift, sorry. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

    Hijack: A standard capacity magazine worth of conventional ammunition isn't capable of causing a catastrophic loss of pressure -- the holes just aren't big enough, and the pressure difference just isn't that great.

    FWIW, we expect to see some more games if a special session is called. We're ready.

    I'm not too concerned, Patrick. I may be wrong, but if the training is free by public safety statute, there's no fee that exists for them to increase. That is, they do not have the authority to levy a fee without changing that law during a regular session. ...right?
     

    X-Factor

    I don't say please
    Jun 2, 2009
    5,244
    Calvert County
    Already done in by their actions. The letters remove credibility that their affirmation rate has any meaning. No logical review of their process would survive even minimal scrutiny.

    They abandoned the high-approval rate claim.

    Just playing devils advocate for a second....

    "But we didn't deny any permits, we MERELY told them that it would be LIKELY to be denied, and out of the goodness of our hearts we returned the application and money so they could reapply with a better reason (whereupon we would studiously investigate and execute the application). We didn't have to, we just wanted to save the citizens their money in these hard economic times. Since we didn't actually process the application or cash the check we did not TECHNICALLY deny the application, ergo we still have a 97% permit approval rate."

    [/DA]

    See what I mean? It's not logical or legal, but it could give insight into their twisted little minds.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    Just playing devils advocate for a second....

    "But we didn't deny any permits, we MERELY told them that it would be LIKELY to be denied, and out of the goodness of our hearts we returned the application and money so they could reapply with a better reason (whereupon we would studiously investigate and execute the application). We didn't have to, we just wanted to save the citizens their money in these hard economic times. Since we didn't actually process the application or cash the check we did not TECHNICALLY deny the application, ergo we still have a 97% permit approval rate."

    [/DA]

    See what I mean? It's not logical or legal, but it could give insight into their twisted little minds.

    Which is illegal under current MD law. :)

    So when can we start throwing people in jail?
     

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