Need facts rebutting my church

Engine4 · Oct 17, 2016

So the Methodist Church is having a "Faith & Guns Forum" in DC next month.

https://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/50192/p/salsa/event/common/public/?event_KEY=90577&utm_source=e-connection+%7C+Oct.+17%2C+2016&utm_campaign=This+Week%27s+e-Connection+%7C+6.8.2015&utm_medium=email

As you can see, the speakers are all anti gun, even down to having Everytown for Gun Safety Survivors. They tout the number killed so far this year by guns as 10,751. Although I'd love to attend & present the truth, I am no good at public speaking & would only represent our side as a bumbling fool. What I want to do is put down in writing to submit to them a well spoken & fact based editorial pointing out the error of their ways. Doing a search on Google for facts on firearm deaths simply points to all antis (imagine that). What resources can I use to that gives me the research I need?

POP57 · Oct 17, 2016

The Methodist Church is openly anti-gun. You are probably best not even bothering.

pitpawten · Oct 17, 2016

Interesting, all the Methodists I know are good ol boys who love shooting, perhaps its an Eastern Shore thing

Gambler · Oct 17, 2016

Please go and ask why the disciples carried swords.

POP57 · Oct 17, 2016

pitpawten said:
Interesting, all the Methodists I know are good ol boys who love shooting, perhaps its an Eastern Shore thing

Well your good ol boys haven't been paying attention. It's a National thing.

http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/united-methodist-church-works-to-end-gun-violence

tallen702 · Oct 17, 2016

Engine4 said:
What resources can I use to that gives me the research I need?

FBI unified crime statistics are a good start. You get a breakdown of homicides, accidents, and suicides as well as what types of weapons were used. It's always a good start to point out that on average, 2/3rd of gun deaths every year are suicides. Now, in a church setting, they probably don't see any difference as suicide is considered by most religions to be an affront to God, but most liberal thinkers are pro-assisted suicide for the terminally ill, etc. So why make petty distinctions? Of the remaining gun deaths (homicides and accidents), it's good to know what kind of guns caused the most deaths. Handguns are always on top, and that's likely to be a good starting point to argue against the Everytown type people who want to go after evil black rifles. In fact, more people were murdered with baseball bats and knives for virtually every year they've kept statistics, than with rifles of ANY and ALL types combined.

The data is there, you just have to organize and plot it yourself.

5.56blaster · Oct 17, 2016

This and other "views" of the UMC are why I left it and all other churches. God doesn't need me to sit a hour a week in a building to be a true follower of his word.

POP57 · Oct 17, 2016

5.56blaster said:
This and other "views" of the UMC are why I left it and all other churches. God doesn't need me to sit a hour a week in a building to be a true follower of his word.

My great great grandfather donated land in Carroll County for a UMC Church where he is buried. I'm pretty sure he would feel the same way.

Boom Boom · Oct 17, 2016

Ask why they support disarming Jews, Christians, or other religious (or political) groups to facilitate another holocaust. It's a fair question since that's basically what they're advocating.

jplum · Oct 17, 2016

gunfacts.info has good information

knastera · Oct 17, 2016

John Piper, a mainstream evangelical takes a similar view to the UMC. Here is a link to a well thought out rebuttal: http://americanvision.org/12837/a-biblical-response-to-john-pipers-denial-of-the-right-to-bear-arms/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T-Man · Oct 17, 2016

This is meant respectfully, but if you find yourself rebutting your church it is not the greatest sign in the world.

Mr. Ed · Oct 17, 2016

Sounds like either an uphill battle, or a lost cause. How many folks in attendance might have an open mind? Any of them? Lately, it seems very few people are even willing to consider that the problem is really with society, and not with guns. And if we take a close look at the demographics of the majority of who is actually using guns to commit crimes, God forbid we should actually tell the truth about it. It's an unfortunate coincidence that the majority of gun crimes are committed by certain demographic groups. It's based on economics, not genetics.

There is a significant number of crimes committed with guns, mostly by career criminals, gang members, drug dealers and inner city thugs. There is no effective way to remove guns from these groups. It is already illegal for them to possess guns. The only effective way to reduce so called 'gun violence' within these groups is to enforce laws already on the books that offer additional, and sometimes mandatory sentencing for using a gun in the commission of a crime. If we lock up enough criminals who are a threat to law abiding society, eventually there will be a lot fewer folks with criminal intentions left on the street. And the rest might get the message that it's not profitable to use a gun to commit a crime. That isn't the case today.

If we want to reduce the number of crimes committed with guns, we need to get the repeat offenders off the streets and make the penalties for those crimes effectively much more severe. The only way to do that will be to apply enough pressure to prosecutors and judges so that they will enforce the laws on the books to protect US, the law abiding citizens, instead of the rights of the poor, unfortunate kids who ate lead paint chips and are turning their lives around.

The only people who are at risk when we, as law abiding, God fearing, upstanding citizens of America possess guns will be the criminals and other folks who try to do us harm. So, when the dust settles, the only people who MIGHT potentially be protected by a gun ban will be criminals. Heck, they'll still have their guns. So who, exactly, will the gun bans protect? Us, the law abiding? Or the criminals?

/rant off

Good luck with your efforts.

LCPIWB · Oct 17, 2016

My 2cents..

In spite of being raised as a Methodist, I was able to repent and be saved later in life.
They are trying to enforce legalism on people. They are the new Pharisees attempted to affect change from the outside. If they would concentrate on evangelism and sharing The Gospel, everything else works itself out.

knastera · Oct 17, 2016

Besides the obvious error they are making in including suicides in gun deaths, they are making the fundamental error of stating that guns kill anyone. The fallen human nature is what kills people. A gun is simply an instrument. If they want to make a bigger impact on unnecessary loss of life due to an instrument, then they should demand that all members of the church abstain from alcohol since more people die from alcohol-related issues than die from all firearms types combined.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T-Man · Oct 17, 2016

http://pastorunlikely.com/2016/09/15/on-self-defense-a-study-in-context/

Bible thoughts on guns.

Johnthetoolguy · Oct 17, 2016

You need to leave the Methodist church. It's that simple. I was raised Methodist but we belong to a Baptist church. we are looking for a new pastor right now, but our pastor that just left was a NRA member and shot at Camp Perry every year.

Alphabrew · Oct 17, 2016

Leave that rotten church as fast as possible.

It's interesting that a thread of mine about visiting the Mormon temple (Mormons are hardcore 2A supporters) in Philly was locked thanks to the Mormon "hate" displayed by MDS, yet you guys are going to and financially supporting churches that are openly opposed to 2A. Think!

bitterkenny · Oct 17, 2016

The simple truth is that all the recently proposed gun control mechanisms will not reduce "gun violence" in any meaningful way. At this point, it's just a political ploy and more security theatre. But in this modern age of click-bait journalism, narrative > facts + logic, so best of luck.

When presented with their "facts", I think the best thing you can do is press them for their sources and testing methodology. Also ask them questions so you can frame scale comparisons. And end the questions by asking how would they measure how successful whatever the new law is, and if shown to be unsuccessful, would they repeal it? The goal here is to show their facts are not really meaningful facts, and that there is no proof that whatever they are proposing will have any meaningful impact. So in other words, you don't need to argue our side as much as demonstrate that their side doesn't know what they are talking about.

hodgepodge · Oct 17, 2016

Sadly, even if we were to give you the facts, or links to the facts, it would not be effective in the forum you might attend. They have a set of beliefs that will not waver in the face of actual numbers of murders, murders in countries with very strict gun controls or self defense usage numbers.

Move on from the Methodists. They are lukewarm.

Need facts rebutting my church

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Curmudgeon

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

¿Got Freedom?

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Hold my beer. Watch this.

Active Member

Just another shooter

Ultimate Member

This IS my Happy Face

Needs an avatar

Just another shooter

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Binary male Lesbian

Meh

Senior Member (Gold)

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics