esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
SB281 convictions?
- Thread starter Merlin593
- Start date
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travistheone
Usual Suspect
have any criminals stated on record that they could not acquire a means to kill due to HQL?
was the implementation of HQL based on success of similar requirements in other areas? If so, where? If not, what led the state to believe the process would be useful?
have gun sales gone down since the HQL implementation? how about gun crimes?
of the nearly 400 murders in baltimore during 2016, how many of the arrested parties had an HQL?
was the implementation of HQL based on success of similar requirements in other areas? If so, where? If not, what led the state to believe the process would be useful?
have gun sales gone down since the HQL implementation? how about gun crimes?
of the nearly 400 murders in baltimore during 2016, how many of the arrested parties had an HQL?
FGT1958
Active Member
How is paying for a test and a license to be able to exercise your 2nd amendment right any different than having to pass a literacy test and pay a poll tax to exercise your right to vote?
Vallario only called for the revote, after the Senate President, Mike Miller (who was sitting behind Vallerio at the bill voting session. Now, how many times have you seen the Senate President sit in a House Committee hearing??
They will probably say that it doesn't matter. What it has done is prevented those who could not pass from applying.
This requirement I never understood since for my training class it was basically hold the grip and pull the trigger while the instructor actually holds the gun.
Unfortunately, this one almost makes sense. Since the license is good for 10 years, how else are they to know if you legal status has changed since it was issued?
rob-cubed
In need of moderation
Q: Since passing the HQL law, has there been any positive change in availability of handguns to criminals, use of handguns in crimes, or frequency of handgun-related shootings?
A: The answer is no to all 3, the law has had zero affect on gun crime--but the defense by the state will be "all the illegal guns are coming from outside our state now, the law is working as planned".
Q: Given its multiple financial and time burdens: training fees, fingerprinting fees, licensing fees, travel requirements--how can the HQL not be seen as a de facto ban affecting most indigent from their right to self defense? It denies those in highest risk neighborhoods access to the most commonly used self-defense firearm. It's a civil rights violation of the 2nd amendment.
A: The state will claim that it hasn't banned "unlicensed" people from buying shotguns or other firearms (yet). A useful defense might be that buying handguns on the black market is about equal to to the total cost of jumping through the HQL hoops plus the cost of purchase. And, that a shotgun is hard to conceal safely from children, and presents a different public safety risk.
Q: Which part of "Shall not be infringed" is not legally defensible to you?
A: I've yet to hear a argument to this that holds water.
A: The answer is no to all 3, the law has had zero affect on gun crime--but the defense by the state will be "all the illegal guns are coming from outside our state now, the law is working as planned".
Q: Given its multiple financial and time burdens: training fees, fingerprinting fees, licensing fees, travel requirements--how can the HQL not be seen as a de facto ban affecting most indigent from their right to self defense? It denies those in highest risk neighborhoods access to the most commonly used self-defense firearm. It's a civil rights violation of the 2nd amendment.
A: The state will claim that it hasn't banned "unlicensed" people from buying shotguns or other firearms (yet). A useful defense might be that buying handguns on the black market is about equal to to the total cost of jumping through the HQL hoops plus the cost of purchase. And, that a shotgun is hard to conceal safely from children, and presents a different public safety risk.
Q: Which part of "Shall not be infringed" is not legally defensible to you?
A: I've yet to hear a argument to this that holds water.
Yeah, my bad on that. I forgot that the longer wait was the "cooling off" period.
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,284
There are three burdensome fees associated with acquiring an HQL, the cost of training, the cost of live scan fingerprints, and the cost of the application and permit. What is the actual cost of reviewing a series of databases and printing and mailing the physical HQL? Did Maryland consider less costly options to achieve the same results such as accepting other nationally recognized training programs such as provided by the NRA or other organizations? (I have been an NRA Basic Marksmanship Instructor for over 35 years and am a former NRA Certified Class "C" Coach in both Rifle and Pistol but if not exempt for other reasons would have had to pay for training) Did they consider allowing the use of conventional fingerprints obtained from local law enforcement agencies? What is the purpose served by the fingerprints, does one of the databases checked require print verification or are the prints used in some way to verify the ID of the HQL applicant or the ID when a gun is purchased? Do each of the fees charged reflect actual costs or are they arbitrary and capricious?
Did the state of Maryland apply a cost benefit study (there is a legal term that appears in some of the cases) to insure the least restrictive means was applied to the burdening of a Constitutionally guaranteed right?
Since its inception there have been 74,000 HQL's issued. In that same period of time how many citizens have complained to either the MSP or the elected representatives of the legislature that the HQL was a burden?
Did the state of Maryland apply a cost benefit study (there is a legal term that appears in some of the cases) to insure the least restrictive means was applied to the burdening of a Constitutionally guaranteed right?
Since its inception there have been 74,000 HQL's issued. In that same period of time how many citizens have complained to either the MSP or the elected representatives of the legislature that the HQL was a burden?
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,199
The stated reason for the fingerprints was having to go into a police station to be fingerprinted would intimidate potential straw purchasers from doing so. Imeadately after that ink fingerprints were done away with, and replaced by Livescan from commercial vendors.
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,089
I'm really surprised how little some people seem to care about the invasion of privacy and the personal, physical intrusion of fingerprinting TO EXERCISE A RIGHT. To them, it's the cost and inconvenience.
What other RIGHTS require you to give up other rights in order to exercise them?
What other RIGHTS require you to give up other rights in order to exercise them?
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,199
Some of us care, hence the HQL lawsuit.
Some of us care, and thereby don't have HQL's .
Some of us care, and thereby don't have HQL's .
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
Hear, Hear ...
It's not an enumerated right if you are required to pay for it ... especially when it's the gov'mnt with their hand out. In any other circumstance it would be called bribery, except here in the PRofMD.
AFA privacy, applying the same convoluted thinking to state and local elections, why not require fingerprinting to vote ? But the state hands out voter registration cards like party favors then turns a blind eye to potential fraud emanating from sanctuary communities. In both cases, the burden placed on us to exercise a God-given right sides would favor overlooking illegal activity ... non-citizen voting or criminal gun use/ownership.
When voting, commenting, posting, and protesting, keep this picture in the back of your mind ... and never, Never, NEVER give up. Fight the fallout of SB281 in every way you can, because Miller, Busch, Frosh and their sycophants in the MDGA want to expand on it.
It's not an enumerated right if you are required to pay for it ... especially when it's the gov'mnt with their hand out. In any other circumstance it would be called bribery, except here in the PRofMD.
AFA privacy, applying the same convoluted thinking to state and local elections, why not require fingerprinting to vote ? But the state hands out voter registration cards like party favors then turns a blind eye to potential fraud emanating from sanctuary communities. In both cases, the burden placed on us to exercise a God-given right sides would favor overlooking illegal activity ... non-citizen voting or criminal gun use/ownership.
When voting, commenting, posting, and protesting, keep this picture in the back of your mind ... and never, Never, NEVER give up. Fight the fallout of SB281 in every way you can, because Miller, Busch, Frosh and their sycophants in the MDGA want to expand on it.
Attachments
- Jan 30, 2013
- 34,089
to both.Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,284
Those who care it is always a good time to send a donation to MSI to help pay for this lawsuit. Defending rights doesn't happen without a cost.
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,284
What is the total number of HQL applications? How many HQL's have been issued? How many HQL's have been denied? What are the reasons HQL's have been denied? How many have been denied for each reason? Have any HQL's been revoked and for what reasons?
How many HQL holders have been denied during the subsequent re-investigation during the 7 cooling off period when they bought or transferred a regulated firearm?
How many firearms have been transferred to HQL holders? How many HQL holders have purchased or transferred more than one regulated firearm? How many HQL holders have not purchased or transferred a regulated firearm?
The HQL process requires the checking of multiple databases. How many denials are based on each database checked? How many denials are only based on a single database? Are there any databases that if not checked would have resulted in a denied person receiving an HQL because the reason for denial showed up no where else?
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esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
THIS ^^^^^
Thank you
Thank you for this esq. I will be pondering as many questions as I can come up with up to 5.
Esq, would it be terrible to ask a question like if a person who was legal to purchase a regulated firearm prior to the HB281 and also was a designated collector prior to Oct 2013 and is in possession of both regulated and non regulated firearms and passed all checks prior to and including the HB281, but is the victim of 2 home invasions in years 2012 and 2014 in which the neighbor (father) got a 10 year with 3.5 suspended down to 6.5 year sentence and the son ( a 15 year old minor) both who stole from my homes to fuel their need for drugs? The current status now sits to where the father got out on parole after serving less than 1/3 of his 10 year sentence, and the son is still failing drug tests and needing repeat trips to rehab and yet lives in the same house with the grandmother as he did when both he and his father who grew up there as well robbed my houses 2 and 3 doors away. No clue where the Paroled father lives or is permitted to live as I was not adequately informed of his last pending parole review until I found out via my own research that he was no longer an inmate when I checked the first part of March 2017.
How is the HQL that I had to endure paying top dollar to get printed and background checked doing it's part to ensure these criminals who got a slap on the wrist won't be stealing or buying guns off the street to then come and blow my head off when I am home as retribution for the minimal punishment they received in this state that cares so much about the safety of it's citizens?
Thank you for this esq. I will be pondering as many questions as I can come up with up to 5.
Esq, would it be terrible to ask a question like if a person who was legal to purchase a regulated firearm prior to the HB281 and also was a designated collector prior to Oct 2013 and is in possession of both regulated and non regulated firearms and passed all checks prior to and including the HB281, but is the victim of 2 home invasions in years 2012 and 2014 in which the neighbor (father) got a 10 year with 3.5 suspended down to 6.5 year sentence and the son ( a 15 year old minor) both who stole from my homes to fuel their need for drugs? The current status now sits to where the father got out on parole after serving less than 1/3 of his 10 year sentence, and the son is still failing drug tests and needing repeat trips to rehab and yet lives in the same house with the grandmother as he did when both he and his father who grew up there as well robbed my houses 2 and 3 doors away. No clue where the Paroled father lives or is permitted to live as I was not adequately informed of his last pending parole review until I found out via my own research that he was no longer an inmate when I checked the first part of March 2017.
How is the HQL that I had to endure paying top dollar to get printed and background checked doing it's part to ensure these criminals who got a slap on the wrist won't be stealing or buying guns off the street to then come and blow my head off when I am home as retribution for the minimal punishment they received in this state that cares so much about the safety of it's citizens?
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