Why 5.8? Why not 6.0

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  • Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    I load for accuracy and have no interest in rouding from the best load. Question doesn’t make sense to me. Zero 200gn L-SWC does best with 4.9gn 231/HP38, and PD 200gn L-SWC does best with 4.8 gn 231/HP38.
    My question is why was 148 gn (9.6 g) selected for .38 wadcutter and 147 gn (9.5 g) for 9mm. Again, 147gn makes sense for metric, and I doubt 148gn was more accurate than 147 or even 150gn, so who selected it?
    Why 158gn (10.2g) instead of 160gn (10.4g), from a country on the imperial system.
    I can see 124gn for 9mm as that is just slightly over 8g, so why 115 instead of 116 gn (7.5 g)
    It seems that OCD is not a driving force in shooting.
    So, any historians, was this due to actual opmizing or just random?

    Because a grain or two or three either way doesn't make a lot of difference. You cannot measure the difference in performance between a 147 gr and 148 grain bullet.

    They design a bullet to be a certain weight range, and take what they get. It is not worth the time and effort to redesign it for a couple of grains finished weight. Historically, they designed a bullet. Shot it. If it worked well, they used it. Whatever the weight.


    Are you REALLY so OCD that your charges must be even whole grains and your bullets even 10 grains???????

    If so, you better get a lab balance so you can make sure your loads are 6.0000 grains and not 6.02 grains.

    But then don't actually weigh your bullets, as you will find they don't actually weigh exactly 148.00 grains.

    Oh, and BTW, a 9 mm is actually 9.01 mm diameter. And .308 bullets are actually .309 inches. And .38 Special bullets are .358 inches. And the German 8 mm round is also called the 7.92x57, but shoots an 8.22 mm bullet.

    And then there are case lengths. .308 is also known as 7.62x51. Maybe they should have shortened it to be 7.62x50. And 9 mm should be lengthened to be 9x20 instead of 9x19.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    Big Foot. I have the sisley article in the 2019 gun digest. Not a link. Ironic because BE is all i have and i have mused about it and proper loads as from what i have read, its not the most popular colt 45 load written about, eg trail boss, tite group, etc. i pulled it off the shelf just to thumb thru, and there was this forgotten article with BE.
    I bought a lee classic...the whack a mole item...and have been using it. It works. I have a small electronic scale i bought when i bought supplies and use it and the dipper that came with the classic to measure powder. I have gotten pretty good at eye balling the level and load usually 6. Gr BE, but i will also load 5.9 and 6.1. Not 6.2 0r 5.8, although that accuracy is only as good as the scale. I have a few SAA in .45 colt and can’t imagine ever buying 45 again ( i shoot modest amts of 45 and have about 300 pieces of 45 brass in the rotation and close to 700 primers as the LGS sold me a box of 1000 early on). I also like shooting .38; i have a first year, 2nd gen colt SAA in the caliber and several snubbies, and i would consider reloading them. I have lots of brass and a case of factory lead HP SW but no primers and no bullets. Acme might have bullets. I have read BE is a very good .38 load. And finally, for the one .357 mag i have, i would also load that cal if supplies get back to normal. Thankfully, its cold and i don’t like shooting outdoors in the cold so i am not going thru supplies until it warms up at least to the upper 40s. Great reloading advice here, and thanks to all who have jumped in.
     

    Gcs7th

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 26, 2012
    1,280
    AGC
    From a simple math perspective loading .2 grains less will let you reload an extra 40 bullets per pound. That’s the difference of 1206 bullets vs 1166. If you shoot thousand of rounds a year that savings adds up.

    If you reload you can have some goal for your ammunition.

    1.Accuracy (ammunition may be loaded specially for your exact gun) accuracy results may even be different in the same model

    2. Recoil /velocity- you cant cheat physics so these to are related but changing powders may increase or decrease felt recoil based on their burn rates, you need to check a manual to ensure you don’t exceed the maximum load for the case which has been tested.

    3. Cost - if your shooting bulk your Primar goal May be to load thousands of rounds at minimal cost. Accuracy may be sacrificed but goal should be. Round that cycles reliably in your firearm, round should have minimum specified charge to ensure round safely leaves the barrel and not cause a squib.


    4. Power factor - if your a competitor your sounds must meet a certain power factor. that’s calculated by mass x velocity so you must chronograph the round in your gun to verify you have enough to qualify.

    So based on the info you provided the decision to use 5.8 vs 6 grains it could be any of these factors. So do some research for yourself make some ladder loads and see what works best for you and your gun.

    Enjoy and be safe shooting/reloading.
     

    Zorros

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 10, 2017
    1,407
    Metropolis
    I'm not sure if you mentioned , but what are your .45 Colt gun(s) ?

    3 gen colt new frontier, 7.5”
    Original ruger vaquero 4.6”
    Colt saa 1907 5.5”
    All .45 colt.
    The old colt i do not shoot too often, but i do shoot it. I made some 5.5 BE loads for it but have not shot them yet.
     

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