Lending AK tools a bad idea?

Collector98 · Aug 2, 2020

Hey everyone, I have a few AK tools I'm not using at the moment and I would like to see them get some use while I'm in-between builds, but I've been hesitant to. Are there any legal or other issues to lending the tools out? I have a short rivet jaw set, 80% drill jig, a trigger guard rivet jig, and a homemade long rivet tool which I doubt anyone would want to use. If I lend them out, I'd like to get a 100% refundable deposit just to cover myself lol. So, what are everyone's thoughts on this? I just want to make sure I'm not going to be getting into hot water if someone lies and uses the tools to build something illegal and then proceeds to get caught. Thanks for the input, guys

rob-cubed · Aug 3, 2020

I miss the heyday of AK building when there were parties and you could roll your own $150. People didn't mind sharing tools (or know-how). Helping someone with a build is arguably more culpable than just loaning out tools—but I never heard of anyone that was prosecuted for helping someone else. As long as they did they work, they built the gun.

MigraineMan · Aug 3, 2020

Given the lack of availability of "stuff" these days, I would be hesitant to loan-out tools that are not easily replaced.

slsc98 · Aug 3, 2020

MigraineMan said:
Given the lack of availability of "stuff" these days, I would be hesitant to loan-out tools that are not easily replaced.

Good advice.

“Never lend out your chainsaw, woman (spouse) or jet ski”

ADD to that “tools that are not easily replaced”

Matlack · Aug 3, 2020

Loaning tools is perfectly legal. The problem that came with build parties had to do with people not knowing anything and someone else ended up building for them. Pretty much the States Attorney threatened a manufacturing business who had a build party. At least that was the way I understood it. It is still perfectly legal for someone to build their own legal to own firearm in MD.

303_enfield · Aug 3, 2020

If your in my AO I'm fine with it. Sending by UPS/USPS/FedEX,NO Fing WAY!

Have bending dies :innocent0

lazarus · Aug 3, 2020

Matlack said:
Loaning tools is perfectly legal. The problem that came with build parties had to do with people not knowing anything and someone else ended up building for them. Pretty much the States Attorney threatened a manufacturing business who had a build party. At least that was the way I understood it. It is still perfectly legal for someone to build their own legal to own firearm in MD.

Yeah, its more about the person helping doing ANYTHING.

Like "oh, let me show you, I'll rivet this part so you can see how it is done for the rest.

You can tell a person how to do it. You could even show them on something you are building for yourself. But you basically can't touch the eventual firearm that the person you are helping is building.

Buster Brown · Aug 3, 2020

Matlack said:
Loaning tools is perfectly legal. The problem that came with build parties had to do with people not knowing anything and someone else ended up building for them. Pretty much the States Attorney threatened a manufacturing business who had a build party. At least that was the way I understood it. It is still perfectly legal for someone to build their own legal to own firearm in MD.

I don't see a problem building (completing) a gun for someone. Its the creating it for someone where the problem lies. For an Ak, have the owner press the flat or drill the blank. They've just made the firearm. After that whatever someone else helps with has nothing to do with making a firearm. I have a friend right now that wants me to build him an AR. If he wanted an 80 id have him come over and drill some holes in it and take it from there. The minute you drill an 80, its now a firearm.

lazarus · Aug 4, 2020

Buster Brown said:
I don't see a problem building (completing) a gun for someone. Its the creating it for someone where the problem lies. For an Ak, have the owner press the flat or drill the blank. They've just made the firearm. After that whatever someone else helps with has nothing to do with making a firearm. I have a friend right now that wants me to build him an AR. If he wanted an 80 id have him come over and drill some holes in it and take it from there. The minute you drill an 80, its now a firearm.

He’d need to finish what it would take to consider it a complete receiver. Yes it’s a firearm/no longer an 80% once you drill a hole, but ATF is going to consider it manufacturing a firearm for your friend if you do further work to get the receiver functional.

It’s one thing to assemble a LPK in a an 80% your buddy built.

teratos · Aug 4, 2020

lazarus said:
Yeah, its more about the person helping doing ANYTHING.

Like "oh, let me show you, I'll rivet this part so you can see how it is done for the rest.

You can tell a person how to do it. You could even show them on something you are building for yourself. But you basically can't touch the eventual firearm that the person you are helping is building.

lazarus said:
He’d need to finish what it would take to consider it a complete receiver. Yes it’s a firearm/no longer an 80% once you drill a hole, but ATF is going to consider it manufacturing a firearm for your friend if you do further work to get the receiver functional.

It’s one thing to assemble a LPK in a an 80% your buddy built.

BGOS. Once the necessary steps are taken to make the receiver functional, you can do anything. If your buddy comes over with a registered receiver and a box of parts, can you put the AR together for him? Abso-fekkin-loutely you can. Once your buddy mills out the trigger pocket and drills the requisite holes in his 80%, it’s now a firearm. You can help all you want. Same with an AK. There is NOTHING in the law to the contrary. Bring me a receiver, a box of parts, and the cop of your choice. I’ll build it right there and buy you both lunch.

lazarus · Aug 4, 2020

teratos said:
BGOS. Once the necessary steps are taken to make the receiver functional, you can do anything. If your buddy comes over with a registered receiver and a box of parts, can you put the AR together for him? Abso-fekkin-loutely you can. Once your buddy mills out the trigger pocket and drills the requisite holes in his 80%, it’s now a firearm. You can help all you want. Same with an AK. There is NOTHING in the law to the contrary. Bring me a receiver, a box of parts, and the cop of your choice. I’ll build it right there and buy you both lunch.

No that’s my point, at that point it’s a finished receiver. Of course you could put the rest of it together for him. But the receiver needs all the steps done to it to make it “done” first.

The “not okay” would then only be if he pays you to finish it for him. In that case you’d need to do the work in his actual presence to avoid needing a gunsmithing license in the eyes of the ATF.

teratos · Aug 4, 2020

lazarus said:
No that’s my point, at that point it’s a finished receiver. Of course you could put the rest of it together for him. But the receiver needs all the steps done to it to make it “done” first.

The “not okay” would then only be if he pays you to finish it for him. In that case you’d need to do the work in his actual presence to avoid needing a gunsmithing license in the eyes of the ATF.

Yep. I’d never charge a friend. I love guns...

Lending AK tools a bad idea?

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