MSP now saying all lowers require 77r??

Bountied · Feb 4, 2021

"People need to stop asking for permission to do something they can do." Quote Chuck

I agree with this I mentioned it in an earlier post. Why call the MSP and ask them about gun laws. The lawyers can't even figure them out let alone a trooper, or anyone really.

jcutonilli · Feb 4, 2021

sxs said:
Most small business owners do not have deep enough pockets to treat the AR15 lower as other than regulated. To do so could result in charges and loss of your regulated firearms license at minimum until possibly years down the road getting a favorable decision. And with Marylands liberal courts, you may not ever get that favorable decision.

If you believe that a stripped lower is a regulated firearm under MD law then one of two things is required. If you classify it as an assault long gun then you cannot legally sell it to the public. If you classify it as a handgun they you are legally required to ensure that the purchaser has a handgun qualification license.

It seems to me that the guidance given by MSP does not comply with MD law. They are allowing it to be sold so it cannot be an assault long gun and they do not require an HQL so it is not a handgun. No matter what you are doing you are not really in compliance with the law.

Alea Jacta Est · Feb 4, 2021

Maryland. It’s illegal.

Mark75H · Feb 4, 2021

Alea Jacta Est said:
Maryland. It’s illegal.

Only if its fun.

viiper · Feb 4, 2021

Our tax dollars pay for this mess. Beautiful. Maybe they should hire more people to further restrict law abiding citizens, and in turn charge more taxes. The service sucks, I want my money back.

viiper · Feb 4, 2021

Athelney878 said:
Someone needs to clue the MSP in on the Rule of Lenity:

“In criminal law, the rule of lenity requires the court to resolve any statutory ambiguity in favor of a criminal defendant. See Leocal v. Ashcroft, 543 U.S. 1, 11 n.8 (2004). This rule has been ingrained in our criminal law for decades. United States v. Wiltberger, 18 U.S. 76, 93 (1820) (“In criminal cases, a strict construction is always to be preferred; and if there be doubt, that is of itself conclusive.”).”

So if the law is unclear, courts have to resolve it in favor of the citizen, not the state.

Thank you for this extremely useful information. It's a pleasure to keep government in check, serving the people. We all pay them a lot.

TheBert · Feb 4, 2021

ironpony said:
Is it best for a LGS to Follow the officer’s instructions and do the 77R ?

Law enforcement needs to point to the law giving them the authority to take action rather than us mere citizens believing everything that comes from their mouth.

Pinecone · Feb 5, 2021

1841DNG said:
If he lived in AZ at the time as well, wasn't there a way for people residing in two states to buy guns in say AZ which MD does not like but not bring them here? Something about proving you actually are staying in both states with a rent contract and utility bills?

lazarus said:
You can. However he said living in Arizona, as a Maryland resident. He didn’t say dual residency. There are hoops to prove dual residency as far as the ATF is concerned. Not major ones, but first is you’ve gotta say you do. Not sure if you’ve also gotta be paying income taxes in both states or not. I don’t remember all of the requirements.

But the point is, if he didn’t claim residency, and prove it, ATF is going to say no handguns or receivers for you unless you are back in your home state.

ATF on the topic:

https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

States you have intend on making your home there.

the intention of making a home in a State must be demonstrated to a
Federal firearms licensee by presenting valid identification documents. Such documents include, but are not limited to, driver’s licenses, voter registration, tax records, or vehicle registration.

ironpony · Feb 5, 2021

Just some thoughts, this message will self destruct soon.

earlybirdnj · Feb 10, 2021

As of Monday 8 Jan AR10 still cas and carry withe my FFL.

randomuser · Feb 10, 2021

viiper said:
Our tax dollars pay for this mess. Beautiful. Maybe they should hire more people to further restrict law abiding citizens, and in turn charge more taxes. The service sucks, I want my money back.

I agree and have felt that way for some time now.

viiper said:
Thank you for this extremely useful information. It's a pleasure to keep government in check, serving the people. We all pay them a lot.

They don't work for you or me.

lemmdus · Feb 10, 2021

The AR-10 is cash and carry in this state. Its better to just buy it completed and walk out the door. In this situation I would have the FFL transfer the lower to a more competent FFL and finish the transaction there. In these situations it is good to have knowledge of the law because chances are we know more than the young lady sitting on the chat board at the MSP-LD.

lemmdus · Feb 10, 2021

The e-mail posted in an earlier post should carry more weight than a simple chat exchange because the e-mails is actually signed (e-sig) by an officer and is an actual letter/memo. If the FFL still insists on having you fill out the 77r, just walk and find another FFL and buy from them.

mdlowrider · Feb 10, 2021

I left Maryland in 2019 after having lived there over 30 years. Reading things like this makes me so grateful I don't live there anymore. I do have sympathy for what you all have to put up with, I really do. But for people who believe in 2A, the difference between living in Maryland and Tennessee would make many of you cry.

My best advice is plan on moving away someday. You won't be sorry.

MossPumper · Feb 10, 2021

I picked up a Aero stripped AR 10 lower yesterday from my FFL and I did not fill out anything. It was a cash and carry.

ZBryant63 · Mar 21, 2023

Could a MD resident purchase an AR15 rifle lower in VA?

Mark75H · Mar 21, 2023

ZBryant63 said:
Could a MD resident purchase an AR15 rifle lower in VA?

Same as any other HBAR, has to be transfered thru MD FFL.

Bullfrog · Mar 21, 2023

Mark75H said:
Same as any other HBAR, has to be transfered thru MD FFL.

I don't dispute the second half of your statement, because I don't know about stripped lowers, but an HBAR does not have to be transferred by a MD FFL. I suspect the lowers do.

HBAR AR 15s are treated as any other long gun, NICS only, no 77R, and can be purchased at out of state FFLs.

mvee · Mar 21, 2023

If I recall correctly, the federal law says that you can only buy a firearm in your state of residence. It then gives exceptions for long guns and says you can get those out of your state as long as it’s legal where you are from.

So you can’t get a lower by itself or a lightweight AR, but you could buy a HBAR out of state.

ZBryant63 said:
Could a MD resident purchase an AR15 rifle lower in VA?

lazarus · Mar 21, 2023

mvee said:
If I recall correctly, the federal law says that you can only buy a firearm in your state of residence. It then gives exceptions for long guns and says you can get those out of your state as long as it’s legal where you are from.

So you can’t get a lower by itself or a lightweight AR, but you could buy a HBAR out of state.

I can't speak to the exact language of the law and the regulations implementing it. But it is ATF's position that out-of-state purchases are for long guns only, and only if legal in your home state.

A frame or receiver of a long gun is not covered. Nor is a handgun.

So a frame or receiver has to be purchased from a home state FFL. You could buy a frame or receiver from a MD FFL who happens to be at a gun show in PA AFAIK. But they are also going to have to follow MD law on how its transferred, because that is what the FFL and MD regulated firearm licenses are going to require.

MSP now saying all lowers require 77r??

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