IDPA: how to know ESP from SSP?

I wanted to get into IDPA and got a fun gun...XDm 9mm. I liked the gun...felt great in my hand and I shoot it ok, but I just didn't know enough about classification to know it put me in ESP, the hardest class to score well. Not that it matters so much for a nob like myself.

I'm at the beginning stages of shopping for an M&P9 or a Glock 34, because they are both in SSP. Now I KNOW the arguments over G34 vs. M&P and I've learned that long time Glock users are way impress with the M&P...more so impressed if they own/shoot 1911's. I have not. I will go and shoot both and decide and probably end up with a G34, given that it will be more similar to my XDm, more so than the 1911 feel of the M&P. Maybe it won't matter. If not I want an M&P...U.S. made and I like S&W...what more can I say.

Since it's not possible to make a long story short at this point...how do you know when a gun is classed as an ESP or a SSP?

Go to the IDPA web site and find the rule book. Inside the rule book you will find the different classes that are used in the matches

celzey said:

Go to the IDPA web site and find the rule book. Inside the rule book you will find the different classes that are used in the matches

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I did that. I would have to know details about each pistol that aren't immediately known to me. I guess I can just keep the plan of M&P9 or G34. I was hoping for a list somewhere.

Of all the guns that are eligible for both SSP and ESP, here is a few ways to tell the differences.

#1 Steel guide rod in 3rd and lower gen Glock? ESP
#2 Add on magwell? ESP
#3 Shooter made master recently in SSP? ESP

Basically, shooters coming in make too big a deal over these two classes. When it comes to match scores, the two classes are closer together than any other. They are basically the same class, with few exceptions. Single actions are ESP bound (to include the XD) and sometimes people put magwells on double stack guns, which for box-legal sized doesn't offer enough advantage to worry about.

The word "enhanced" in ESP really just means "slightly different".

Thanks Rob...that's good info.

Right now I have to break 190 in ESP to make Marksman, but only 210 to make Marksman in SSP. (It's not a huge difference, but for this nob it may come more quickly if I'm SSP)

Your point #1 makes me thing you don't know yet where the Gen4 G34 will be. Do you think it would be in ESP?

It is SSP or ESP. I made the distinction because the others come with plastic guide rods. You can't upgrade that for SSP.

Bikebreath,

Listen to Rob. He knows what he's talking about when he talks.
The XD was classified by the manufacturer and then the ATF as a single action gun.
Because of that it falls into the ESP division.
I know the GLOCK and the M&P are both polymer framed striker fired pistols as well but they are touted by the manufacturer and ATF as double action pistols. (Is there a difference IMHO no, but that's what they say they are).
The times you are concentrating on in classification are not worth looking at or worrying about.
ESP is no harder than SSP or CDP. They are simply different.
I shoot a GLOCK 34 in SSP and when I shoot ESP I put a stainless guide rod and magwell on it and shoot in the other division. Same gun, damn near same scores.
The only reason I moved to a M&P last year is because I needed a .45 to shoot that division and the GLOCK .45 didn't fit my hand even in the SF model.
Now that I'm where I want to be with the M&P I'm back to shooting the GLOCK in SSP this year.
One thing you should look at is the number of contestants at a match shooting in SSP at the Marksman and Sharpshooter divisions. The number will ALWAYS be higher than the number of people shooting ESP in those divisions at the same match.
The reason for this is more people look at SSP as an easier division because of the way the classification match numbers are scored.
If you shoot ESP and your shooting buddy shoots SSP (both of you at an equal skill level) you will always place higher simply because of the number of shooters your buddy has to shoot against.
My advice is to shoot ESP since you have the gun and gear and smoke the rest of them in matches.
If you want to buy a new gun (and I can relate to that) and feel you MUST shoot SSP I would buy a M&P simply because the stainless magazines are nice and we have a great M&P gunsmith 1 state north.
If you just want to make Marksman I would suggest you do it with the XD as your competition at your level will be far less at most matches and you will always place higher.

Hope this helps.

Sorry guys, I wasn't catching on, but I think I have it now. Yeah, I want a new gun, but since I see why I can stay in in ESP with the XDm, I won't sweat what I get...maybe just bank the money for while...thanks!

If its a "single action" it has to be in ESP. You can make an SSP gun into a ESP gun with allowed mod's but there is nothing you can do to make a "single action" gun into an SSP legal gun.

M&P's and Glock's, for example are SSP (when in stock form) because the trigger pull cocks the striker / hammer (at least in part). Think DAO or DA on the first shot. A "single action" like a 9mm 1911 or XD only releases the striker / hammer and can only be used in ESP. Think SAO.

It can be confusing but the idea is if you don't have to cock the gun with the trigger pull you have and "advantage" compared guns where you do cock with the trigger. Thus you are in ESP. Also, if you take a stock service pistol and make modifications it becomes "enhanced", i.e., ESP.

i wish you much success in this endeavour, please let us know how you do.




p.s. are you a nob or a noob??? your words bro, i'm just asking for clarification (please don't beat me up...)

"Also, if you take a stock service pistol and make modifications it becomes "enhanced", i.e., ESP. "

Or if you leave a stock service pistol alone and sign up to shoot the ESP class it becomes an ESP gun.

km04 said:

i wish you much success in this endeavour, please let us know how you do.




p.s. are you a nob or a noob??? your words bro, i'm just asking for clarification (please don't beat me up...)

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I looked into firearms for the self-protection January 2009 and got my first handgun in June 2009. I'm a Noooooob! However, I have 7 firearms and I reload for .357 and by next month 7.62x54R. All were lost in boating accident, though...

Edit:
Additionally:
I am a Md Collector
I have my C&R
I got my NRA RSO last month
I'm an executive member of MSI and I've been to Anna. twice this year.

Rather than say I'm obsessed with my new hobby I prefer to say I'm embracing it.

If you opt for a 4.5" M&P 45, and get a Burwell trigger job, you could shoot, and be competitive in all 3 auto classes. Load 8 and make 165PF for CDP, load 10+1 and make 125PF for SSP and ESP, which if using 200gr slugs is a mere 625FPS, barely enough to recoil at all. A few people use them with the goal of classifying as master in 3 divisions with 1 handgun.

Until you start shooting above club level matches, and get in the top couple classifications you really don't need to worry about what class you are put into, as you will basically be competing aggainst yourself, and learning more than trying to cut fractions of a second from your time. Just have fun, and work on getting through stages quicker without dropping points, there is more than enough spread amongst shooters and skill level that even a decent SSR shooter could place well in ESP. As far as the classifier goes, it is a neccesary evil, and there is some pride held if you get into a higher class. Some people shoot it well, and get the coverted Master title, then get smoked routinely by a SS or MA that sucks at the classifier. Again, it really doesn't matter till you shoot above club level, but if you plan on it, shoot an honest classifier, don't try to "study", or do any more prep or strategising than you normally do, better to shoot amongst peers, and have fun as a SS at a state match than get frustrated and feel out of your league as a MA.

Thanks Alucard. It all started by having some freed up cash..."I'll get a gun. I'll get a *better* gun for IDPA".

There's some good food for thought in your post.

Until you start shooting above club level matches...

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That is not happening any time soon, so I will resolve to accept just having fun.

...although an M&P .45acp would be nice to add to my collection

The M&P .45 is a fun one to play with. I had to buy one last year to shoot CDP because I wanted a .45 that works that I cal also shoot in USPSA major.
If you want a .45 to add to the collection it is a reliable pistol that won't break the bank.

Sounds like sticking with the XDm would be the right move.

Great topic and great input

Learned a lot from this thread too since I'm just starting with IDPA too.