New Foxtrot Mike FM-15 Gen 2

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

This looks pretty cool. Basically an AR with no buffer tube and buffer spring, so attaching a folder is easy. Interestingly enough, Brownells says they can't ship these to MD.

https://www.brownells.com/guntech/foxtrot-mike-fm-15-gen-2/detail.htm?lid=18500

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

Even more interesting, you can get the upper and put it on a std lower. They include an end plate with a picatinny rail adapter. Pretty cool. Big question is; still a clone or copy or not? If so, would still need a heavy barrel, but seems to me this is no longer a clone with this upper.

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...r-receiver-assembly-223-wylde-prod144607.aspx

Name Taken · Dec 19, 2021

Seems interesting.

Growler215 · Dec 19, 2021

Seems to be threaded or have a flash hider. Doesn't folding count as a second "evil feature" per MD law?

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

Growler215 said:
Seems to be threaded or have a flash hider. Doesn't folding count as a second "evil feature" per MD law?

I think you are right. From this thread:

Q: What are the evil features for semi-auto centerfire rifles that take detachable mags?
A: The list is:
1. Folding stock
2. Grenade or flare launcher
3. Flash hider

I guess one would have to replace the hider with an acceptable muzzle device for the upper. Maybe a brake (?)

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

Also keep in mind you don't HAVE to install a folder if you just get the upper and replace on an exiting lower. What I find interesting is that doing so may change the rifle from an HBAR clone to a non-clone.

teratos · Dec 19, 2021

calicojack said:
Also keep in mind you don't HAVE to install a folder if you just get the upper and replace on an exiting lower. What I find interesting is that doing so may change the rifle from an HBAR clone to a non-clone.

This is not an AR clone. You should not need a HBAR.

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

teratos said:
This is not an AR clone. You should not need a HBAR.

calicojack · Dec 19, 2021

Man - I really want one of these. Goodness knows I don't' really NEED it. I have several very cool AR's as it is.

jrumann59 · Dec 22, 2021

it is kind of sexy, be interesting to see a year long test of it though.

alucard0822 · Dec 22, 2021

Know a couple people that got one. It's basically DI with the carrier cut off behind the firing pin, the carrier rides on a guide rod above the gas tube in a tall gas key with coax recoil springs between the back of the key and rear of the upper where a charging handle would normally be. The gas block is fixed, and there is no buffer, so the action is tuned by springs only, and includes unsuppressed, mixed, and suppressed only rates. This makes the rail taller, and a greater height over bore for 1.5" over rail " AR height" optics. The side charger is a love it-hate it thing, it kinda gets in the way of the support hand running on the weak side. It is really cool, and will probably get one at some point, supposedly suppresses decent, but has a little sharper recoil than a properly tuned ar15. Really want them to make a short < 8" 300BO model with a form 1 and Zukov stock adapter. With any AR this far from mil spec it's a risk if it doesn't catch on, being most of the parts are single source proprietary.

jcutonilli · Dec 22, 2021

calicojack said:
I think you are right. From this thread:

Q: What are the evil features for semi-auto centerfire rifles that take detachable mags?
A: The list is:
1. Folding stock
2. Grenade or flare launcher
3. Flash hider

I guess one would have to replace the hider with an acceptable muzzle device for the upper. Maybe a brake (?)

You could also add a grenade or flare launcher. That way you don't have two of the list.

(h) Copycat weapon. --
(1) "Copycat weapon" means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;

apparently they left out "or more" so having three of the items is acceptable.

teratos · Dec 22, 2021

jcutonilli said:
apparently they left out "or more" so having three of the items is acceptable.

This makes sense to me.

I still have some pre-ban lowers. About 25. Maybe I’ll make a couple with all 3. Been meaning to get a grenade launcher.

erwos · Dec 22, 2021

jcutonilli said:
apparently they left out "or more" so having three of the items is acceptable.

Just to clarify for everyone else, you absolutely have two of those items if you also have three of them.

I would say that the only way this thing really makes sense is to use a folding stock, which means you want to put a brake on it. Unfortunately, a folder also prohibits using a suppressor on it while you're in MD, which is a real shame. That said, if they come out with a 6.5-8" version for 300AAC, it may be on the buy list for my pre-ban SBR...

teratos · Dec 22, 2021

erwos said:
Just to clarify for everyone else, you absolutely have two of those items if you also have three of them.

I would say that the only way this thing really makes sense is to use a folding stock, which means you want to put a brake on it. Unfortunately, a folder also prohibits using a suppressor on it while you're in MD, which is a real shame. That said, if they come out with a 6.5-8" version for 300AAC, it may be on the buy list for my pre-ban SBR...

Make it a pistol or SBR it. Fuggem.

GolfR · Dec 22, 2021

I’m surprised brownells would have an exclusive deal for this. It’s direct conpetition for their own BRN180.

erwos · Dec 22, 2021

teratos said:
Make it a pistol or SBR it. Fuggem.

SBR doesn't relieve you of the feature test.

GolfR said:
I’m surprised brownells would have an exclusive deal for this. It’s direct conpetition for their own BRN180.

Foxtrot Mike makes the BRN-180 for them.

teratos · Dec 22, 2021

erwos said:
SBR doesn't relieve you of the feature test.

Feature test is for rifles.

woodline · Dec 22, 2021

erwos said:
Foxtrot Mike makes the BRN-180 for them.

I had in my head it was PWS, not FM. Huh.

erwos · Dec 22, 2021

teratos said:
Feature test is for rifles.

MSP disagrees, and the law is genuinely unclear about whether that section applies to SBRs or not. You can read it either way. I would not take the risk, personally.

fbi_surveillance_van said:
I had in my head it was PWS, not FM. Huh.

One company, different brands.

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