Apathy and Gun Owners

Wheaton Hills Sportsman · Feb 10, 2019

The corrupt billionaires do not like Americans, they can casually peel a few million out their pocket for an astro-turf organization. They use a battalion of lawyers to legally parse out way too much money to weak minded politicians, and there are a lot of them. Don't whine if the NRA or GOA or any other real progun group solicits you. They are David fighting Goliath, even the NRA and the NSSF combined do not have an annual budget as high as the enemies of the Constitution. And beware the fakes who just solicit money and never seem to spend any on gun rights.

regulator · Feb 10, 2019

I really hope I am wrong. I do contribute to fight for our 2A rights, however after 26+ years in law enforcement I have come to grips with one day I will be a felon because I will not comply.

teratos · Feb 10, 2019

regulator said:
I really hope I am wrong. I do contribute to fight for our 2A rights, however after 26+ years in law enforcement I have come to grips with one day I will be a felon because I will not comply.

Ignoring Unconstitutional laws does not make one a felon. That act makes one a Patriot. The real question is will likeminded persons be willing to stand with you when the time comes?

regulator · Feb 11, 2019

Wow that shut down this thread quickly.

Relax people, i know I don't post 20x a day, I'm not Fed, a plant or anything negative. I am a Marine Veteran an law enforcement officer from a major metropolitan city.

I get increasingly frustrated with new laws proposed, however I am not eligible to get my 1st Ammendment back until May, until then I will remember I took two Oaths. Both similar one in '87 one in '92 either one "Against all enemies foriegn and domestic "

I come learn alot here, support the Constitution, do not support Government overthrow, LOVE The Constitution as written and intended , not really fond of our elected leaders opinions and monetarily support organizations that really fight for our 2A.

If and when those of us become felons, I will physically stand with you, not just on a forum.

Rant over, please continue to post here. This is important people!

Schipperke · Feb 12, 2019

I think contention foments apathy. Sometimes people just throw up their hands and say F it. Hickock 45 was mentioned in another thread, and I haven't taken a look at him for a while. Just did, and apparently he just recently posted a video on his 2A musings, and is now persona non grata to the red meat 2A crowd? Meme courtesy "The Yankee Marshal"

pilot25 · Feb 12, 2019

Mr. Ed said:
We're fighting an uphill battle on several fronts. Back when we mustered thousands of 2A supporters and overwhelmed the GA, we thought we had a chance to avoid being raped. Nope. Pointing out logical and legal flaws in their proposed laws had no effect in preventing their adoption.

For several years since then we've mustered dozens of folks out on the bricks in Annapolis (and elsewhere) with extremely well crafted signs and a couple of very articulate spokesmen to represent our case. And yet we measure our success not with positive legislation, but in slightly reducing the further erosion of our rights.

We (2A supporters who actually have done something) whether it's write letters, make phone calls, testify, hit the bricks, and even get arrested while standing up for our point of view are significantly outnumbered by not just the folks who don't care one way or the other, but also the ones who see us as dangerous for some pathologically Freudian reason. We are fighting a huge opposition with massive funding and media support. Time, and future Supreme Court rulings may be our only salvation.

Some of us are disheartened while others still bravely lead the charge. Some hint at some sort of future confrontation. Others move away.

Looking at the photo of the governor signing the red flag bill, surrounded by sycophants and acolytes with the MDA gals in front, all posing with smiles for the camera, points out an interesting contrast between our side and theirs.

They offer warm, fuzzy unicorns and rainbows, and create lots of smiles. They make legislators feel good. As a result it's safer and more comfortable for our legislators to pass more restrictive 2A legislation, even when they know (or suspect) that it's unconstitutional and may be overturned in the long run. In the short run they're seen as heroes and loved by the majority of their base, and we're still seen as the enemy.

On the other hand, it seems as though our confrontational methods create the opposite effect as we try to shame our opponents into our way of thinking, which is to honor the Constitution. Although I'm not clever enough to know the answer, I sometimes wonder if we haven't pissed off some folks who might have supported us (or at least not fought against us) in some small way. Not that it would make any real difference.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that we've done anything counter-productive. Just wondering...

Insanity in its purest form. After 2013, with the thousands that were at the GA and nothing changed then its wall meet head.

MD is only going to change at the ballot box. When Baltimore officials decided they were going to impose a mandatory 1 year jail term for illegal possession hundreds of residents protested. These weren't NRA or PP or MSI people. These were everyday Baltimore residents who carried illegally because they feared for their lives from the wretch that is Baltimore. Officials backed down but they didn't offer a legal way for the citizens to protect themselves. This was the opportunity to educate the Baltimore citizens to demand Shall Issue. Nope. Not one conservative politician had the nuts to go into Baltimore and try. No group wanted to go to Baltimore to try. Fear? Probably. If we don't have someone that the citizens of Baltimore can trust then its is an impossible battle. Maj Toure said it best, "You cannot go to an inner city and change minds. I can. You aren't the right color." Sad reality but its reality. There are people in every city trying to make a difference. Finding common ground and combining forces would be a start. It would be a 20 year project. However, continuing to do the same things over and over might make you feel good but doesn't produce results.

As far as I know, there are only 2 gun rights people who have gone into the inner cities to learn what the people there are thinking. Colion Noir and Maj Toure. Conservative politicians should take note but in reality they don't give a crap.

Nothing is going to change in MD if you cannot galvanize people to the voting booths. Until then defensive litigation is the only way to preserve rights. In the mean time, we fight each other over crap like bump stocks and red flag laws. They are on the precipice of banning ARs altogether and are highly organized and funded.

j_h_smith · Feb 12, 2019

pilot25 said:
Insanity in its purest form. After 2013, with the thousands that were at the GA and nothing changed then its wall meet head.

MD is only going to change at the ballot box. When Baltimore officials decided they were going to impose a mandatory 1 year jail term for illegal possession hundreds of residents protested. These weren't NRA or PP or MSI people. These were everyday Baltimore residents who carried illegally because they feared for their lives from the wretch that is Baltimore. Officials backed down but they didn't offer a legal way for the citizens to protect themselves. This was the opportunity to educate the Baltimore citizens to demand Shall Issue. Nope. Not one conservative politician had the nuts to go into Baltimore and try. No group wanted to go to Baltimore to try. Fear? Probably. If we don't have someone that the citizens of Baltimore can trust then its is an impossible battle. Maj Toure said it best, "You cannot go to an inner city and change minds. I can. You aren't the right color." Sad reality but its reality. There are people in every city trying to make a difference. Finding common ground and combining forces would be a start. It would be a 20 year project. However, continuing to do the same things over and over might make you feel good but doesn't produce results.

As far as I know, there are only 2 gun rights people who have gone into the inner cities to learn what the people there are thinking. Colion Noir and Maj Toure. Conservative politicians should take note but in reality they don't give a crap.

Nothing is going to change in MD if you cannot galvanize people to the voting booths. Until then defensive litigation is the only way to preserve rights. In the mean time, we fight each other over crap like bump stocks and red flag laws. They are on the precipice of banning ARs altogether and are highly organized and funded.

I just don't think we (pro 2A folks) have the numbers to make a difference in Baltimore City, much less Maryland. The stark truth of the matter is that we will never have the votes to change this state. The numbers don't lie. It's not possible to make a meaningful change with the gun owning minority of Maryland.

All of the protesting, all of the shaming of our representative won't make any difference. It's mob rule in Annapolis and that my friend is the of politics in Maryland.

Until the people of this state wake up and see what's happening, we will not see any changes. My hope is that other issues (non 2A) will bring upon a change. A more conservative approach to governing will inherently bring pro 2A representation to Annapolis.

This is our only hope (my opinion).

East2West · Feb 12, 2019

pilot25 said:
Insanity in its purest form. After 2013, with the thousands that were at the GA and nothing changed then its wall meet head.

MD is only going to change at the ballot box. When Baltimore officials decided they were going to impose a mandatory 1 year jail term for illegal possession hundreds of residents protested. These weren't NRA or PP or MSI people. These were everyday Baltimore residents who carried illegally because they feared for their lives from the wretch that is Baltimore. Officials backed down but they didn't offer a legal way for the citizens to protect themselves. This was the opportunity to educate the Baltimore citizens to demand Shall Issue. Nope. Not one conservative politician had the nuts to go into Baltimore and try. No group wanted to go to Baltimore to try. Fear? Probably. If we don't have someone that the citizens of Baltimore can trust then its is an impossible battle. Maj Toure said it best, "You cannot go to an inner city and change minds. I can. You aren't the right color." Sad reality but its reality. There are people in every city trying to make a difference. Finding common ground and combining forces would be a start. It would be a 20 year project. However, continuing to do the same things over and over might make you feel good but doesn't produce results.

As far as I know, there are only 2 gun rights people who have gone into the inner cities to learn what the people there are thinking. Colion Noir and Maj Toure. Conservative politicians should take note but in reality they don't give a crap.

Nothing is going to change in MD if you cannot galvanize people to the voting booths. Until then defensive litigation is the only way to preserve rights. In the mean time, we fight each other over crap like bump stocks and red flag laws. They are on the precipice of banning ARs altogether and are highly organized and funded.

And why shouldn't we fight each other over bumpstocks and red flag laws? How can we attempt to fight infringers when we have infringers in our ranks?

Schipperke · Feb 12, 2019

pilot25 said:
Insanity in its purest form. After 2013, with the thousands that were at the GA and nothing changed then its wall meet head.

MD is only going to change at the ballot box. When Baltimore officials decided they were going to impose a mandatory 1 year jail term for illegal possession hundreds of residents protested. These weren't NRA or PP or MSI people. These were everyday Baltimore residents who carried illegally because they feared for their lives from the wretch that is Baltimore. Officials backed down but they didn't offer a legal way for the citizens to protect themselves. This was the opportunity to educate the Baltimore citizens to demand Shall Issue. Nope. Not one conservative politician had the nuts to go into Baltimore and try. No group wanted to go to Baltimore to try. Fear? Probably. If we don't have someone that the citizens of Baltimore can trust then its is an impossible battle. Maj Toure said it best, "You cannot go to an inner city and change minds. I can. You aren't the right color." Sad reality but its reality. There are people in every city trying to make a difference. Finding common ground and combining forces would be a start. It would be a 20 year project. However, continuing to do the same things over and over might make you feel good but doesn't produce results.

As far as I know, there are only 2 gun rights people who have gone into the inner cities to learn what the people there are thinking. Colion Noir and Maj Toure. Conservative politicians should take note but in reality they don't give a crap.

Nothing is going to change in MD if you cannot galvanize people to the voting booths. Until then defensive litigation is the only way to preserve rights. In the mean time, we fight each other over crap like bump stocks and red flag laws. They are on the precipice of banning ARs altogether and are highly organized and funded.

Wait for the I made a black friend post..

PJDiesel · Feb 12, 2019

j_h_smith said:
All you need to mention are Red Flag Laws and Bump Stock Bans.

Write out a fat donation check to the RNC and the 2020 campaign while we're at it:

[YT]30E5P12DVEk[/YT]

PJDiesel · Feb 12, 2019

3174 said:
And why shouldn't we fight each other over bumpstocks and red flag laws? How can we attempt to fight infringers when we have infringers in our ranks?

See above.... we've got a full on infringer in the WH, doesn't stop folks from swinging from his sack.

pilot25 · Feb 12, 2019

3174 said:
And why shouldn't we fight each other over bumpstocks and red flag laws? How can we attempt to fight infringers when we have infringers in our ranks?

What are you going to put your bump stock on when the organized anti-2A groups get their way? I can see the laughing from Moms demand Action. Here keep your piece of plastic bump stock but thanks for your guns.

Eye on the prize....

pilot25 · Feb 12, 2019

Schipperke said:
Wait for the I made a black friend post..

You think he is wrong?

I don't live in Baltimore and would never venture into the areas that are high crime. However, after everything I have read I don't doubt he speaks the truth. Watching the Colion Noir videos, its apparent.

Want to turn Maryland then Baltimore is key. Not one conservative politician has tried. Did Hogan even go into the inner city to speak? I don't recall that he did.

j_h_smith · Feb 12, 2019

pilot25 said:
You think he is wrong?

I don't live in Baltimore and would never venture into the areas that are high crime. However, after everything I have read I don't doubt he speaks the truth. Watching the Colion Noir videos, its apparent.

Want to turn Maryland then Baltimore is key. Not one conservative politician has tried. Did Hogan even go into the inner city to speak? I don't recall that he did.

He did mediate the end of the FG riots. At least that's one story.

pilot25 · Feb 12, 2019

j_h_smith said:
I just don't think we (pro 2A folks) have the numbers to make a difference in Baltimore City, much less Maryland.

But the citizens of Baltimore, at least the ones in the worst areas, are already pro-2A. Not in the conventional sense that we are talking about but they are carrying illegally. The good people who go to work everyday and can't flee the city because they are barely able to scratch out a living there.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017...-spike-baltimore-grasps-at-a-gun-bill/540813/

Not shockingly this article is misleading on the protests intent but I remember when it happened and the people who did it. They wanted safer streets and if the city wasn't going to do it then they were going to take safety in their own hands.

This protest did more in one day than us protesting for over a decade. They have a voice, we don't.

Schipperke · Feb 12, 2019

pilot25 said:
You think he is wrong?

I don't live in Baltimore and would never venture into the areas that are high crime. However, after everything I have read I don't doubt he speaks the truth. Watching the Colion Noir videos, its apparent.

Want to turn Maryland then Baltimore is key. Not one conservative politician has tried. Did Hogan even go into the inner city to speak? I don't recall that he did.

Not at all.

It's why when I see a bunch of white guys schooling blacks on racism and gun control I cringe. That opinion then gets ramped up as squelching free speech by some. :lol2:

MSAreGreat · Feb 12, 2019

Thanks for the response. It is good you realize that LE is not immune. I meet many active LE while working the VCDL table that incorrectly state that LE is immune from gun restrictions. Not only do the anti gunners want to band civilian ownership but also use the model in many countries where LE cannot carry off duty

You are thinking about the future

dogbone · Feb 12, 2019

MSAreGreat said:
I worked the Sat. pm shift of the VCDL ( Virginia Citizens Defense League) table and the Chantilly gund show and it never ceases to amaze me how apathetic gun owners are as group. Trying to give out literature and sign up new members is worse than pulling teeth. People make such statements as "can't be bothered" "nothing to worry about Trump is in the WH." No wonder the other side can make such in roads.

DivingDriver said:
Ah, but us at MSI.... We are scrapers. Shamed more than one person or two to throw some cash in the till to help out. Hang tough gentlemen and ladies it ain't over till the fat lady sings!

Ah, yes, the old catch them with their own words trick.

MSI: Have you heard of MSI?
Them: Yes, I have.
MSI: Do you like what the organization is doing?
Them: Oh, yeah.
MSI: Are you a member?
Them: No.
MSI: Why not? We can fix that right here and now.

yakfish · Feb 12, 2019

j_h_smith said:
All you need to mention are Red Flag Laws and Bump Stock Bans.

Brought to you by a Republican Governor and a Republican President

No, I’m not suggesting anyone vote democrat, either. I’m merely saying they both want us disarmed. At this point, all I want to work towards is destroying this country as it’s come to be, and Balkanizing it into something that accommodate people like me, people who’ve served the “old” USA, who believe in antiquated things like our Founding, and all that obsolete stuff. As long as I can carve out a section of it somewhere for people like me, I’d happily see the rest of it, and the progressive bastards who’ve ruined it, nuked by the Chinese.

I despise more than half my fellow “Americans”.

rascal · Feb 13, 2019

PJDiesel said:
See above.... we've got a full on infringer in the WH

OK only if you have been living in a cave the past 100 years. congrats you are doing EXACTLY what the gun grabbers want you to do.

Please name a US president since FDR that has not been 100x worse.

The gun control nuts think Trump outsmarted them with the bump stock short circuiting Feinsteins 10x worse bill. They think Kavanaugh is the worst possible appointment from their perspective. They have looked at the record of the 100 federal judges he has nominated and found they are virtually all from the top 10% of defenders of the Second Amendment in the of potential judges.

I talk to the handful of anti-trump and anti-NRA haters at our range. They run off the mouth -- a lot. I ask them who their state senator is or who their state rep is and 100% have no idea. They have no idea what state district they are in or what US district they are in. 99% don't even know who their US rep is. They do not organize and go meet the fence sitting legislators, don't organize support of friendly ones, or position to unfriendly ones. Most don't even vote. They sure as fk dont give money

What they do a lot is talk to themselves and laughably try and collar you to harangue about ********. They are bloombergs favorite type of gun owner.

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