45acp for IDPA

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

I have an M&P 45 coming

I'm going to put together some reloads for IDPA @ 125 power factor. My Speer manual has the best loading info for my purpose. 1.- It has lead bullets and 2.- nice low velocities. The lowest fps is for SWC and it just seems wrong to shoot those though a semi auto. Are they ok?

The lowest fps loads in my manual are 143PF. Any idea how I can get closer to 125PF?

Also, I bought the brass in the link below and have since learned that some brass in 45acp take large primers and some take small primers. Is there some way to find out what this brass is, besides calling the manufacture?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=1601146755

Less important, why wasn't primer hole size included in the description?

smokey · Apr 22, 2011

hmmmm....185 gr bullet going around 680 fps would be a power factor of 125.8. That's prettttty slow. Don't know if they'd be strong enough to reliably cycle the action either.

if you realllllly want to get down, they make 160 gr solid copper bullets
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=342541
you could load to 785 fps for a pf of 125.6...have to go search for load on emm to get down to that.

pop-gunner · Apr 22, 2011

I assume you're shooting this in ESP as CDP requires a 165000 min. power factor.
Now I must ask why would you do that? You will be shooting in a class against single action 9mm and .40 guns with a .45. That makes no sense to me. As for the M&P .45 it works great. I used one in CDP last year and had a blast.
As for your question you only need to push a 230gr bullet at 544fps to make a 125000 power factor. That gun is going to run in slow motion.

Fustercluck · Apr 22, 2011

Agree with pop gunner on this. There is no advantage to shooting 45 in ESP/SSP.

kalister1 · Apr 22, 2011

For the 1911 frame, they sell different WEIGHT springs. I don't know if can buy a lighter spring for your M & P though

4g64loser · Apr 22, 2011

you can get lighter springs and all but i agree with popgunner. there's no advantage. you would be at a distinct DISADVANTAGE running a 45 in ESP. I tried with a Witness because I could. Miserable failure. I did far better with a 1911 single stack in CDP even giving up mag capacity because I was shooting against people running .45s. I can shoot full power 45 just fine, but it is a simple fact that a single action 9 or 40minor is going to be faster given the same shooter skill level.

now, if the club/match you shoot in doesnt offer CDP due to demand, well, then your idea of mousefart 45s would probably be a reasonable work around because you would be shooting against other people in the same boat.

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

Hmmm, I may be a little off base here...

I wanted a 45acp. I have a 9 I shoot in ESP and I'm ok with it. I though I could get an ant-fart load that might have some tiny advantage, although I don't really care as much about that as just getting to shoot my 45 in IDPA.

A thread I started a while back had this reply from "Alucard0822 http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1019729&postcount=13 His first paragraph caught my attention:

If you opt for a 4.5" M&P 45, and get a Burwell trigger job, you could shoot, and be competitive in all 3 auto classes. Load 8 and make 165PF for CDP, load 10+1 and make 125PF for SSP and ESP, which if using 200gr slugs is a mere 625FPS, barely enough to recoil at all. A few people use them with the goal of classifying as master in 3 divisions with 1 handgun.

So, whether or not I'm off base a little or a lot I'm going to shoot this M&P in IDPA and I don't care what class. Oh, I am not anywhere near capable of classifying in 3 divisions, just having fun buying guns, loading for them and shootin'.

The questions are still out there even if I am a little cRaZy.

kalister1 · Apr 22, 2011

Personally I shoot the guns that I like. I do not worry about being competitive, I shoot for fun.

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

kalister1 said:
Personally I shoot the guns that I like. I do not worry about being competitive, I shoot for fun.

OMG yes! I am so far down at the bottom of the pack when scores come out I better be in it for the fun, at the very least.

pop-gunner · Apr 22, 2011

A couple people here have mentioned it so I will give you a little advice.
DO NOT CHANGE THE SPRINGS ON A M&P .45.
There is no need for it and you will sacrifice reliability.
They do not work quite the same was as a GLOCK where changing springs helps things some.
If you are going to do anything at all I would send it to Burwell and have Dan do a trigger job. He has also designed a rear sight that mates up perfectly with a DP front fiber optic and works just fine.
Let me know next time you're heading to a match and I'll bring mine for your inspection if you'd like.

kalister1 · Apr 22, 2011

I was talking about changing recoil springs on a 1911 to allow lighter loads to cycle the action

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

pop-gunner said:
A couple people here have mentioned it so I will give you a little advice.
DO NOT CHANGE THE SPRINGS ON A M&P .45.
There is no need for it and you will sacrifice reliability.
They do not work quite the same was as a GLOCK where changing springs helps things some.
If you are going to do anything at all I would send it to Burwell and have Dan do a trigger job. He has also designed a rear sight that mates up perfectly with a DP front fiber optic and works just fine.
Let me know next time you're heading to a match and I'll bring mine for your inspection if you'd like.

Pop-gunner:
I'm shooting IDPA at AAFG. I've seen your postings and know you are down there, too. It would be nice to see your set-up some time. I'll let you know...thanks.

I may get the trigger job, but I want to at least see how it is stock for a while and let cash build up.

As for your question you only need to push a 230gr bullet at 544fps to make a 125000 power factor. That gun is going to run in slow motion.

Can you translate that? Maybe your just making a joke. Is it a bad thing? I can get 143000, so I was thinking somewhat lower, but it doesn't have to be all the way down to 125000.

Oh, and someone...anyone. I'd still like to know what size primer goes in the brass from the link in the OP? Call the manufacture?

Thanks all,
Doug

JavaDan · Apr 22, 2011

Bikebreath said:
Pop-gunner:
I'm shooting IDPA at AAFG. I've seen your postings and know you are down there, too. It would be nice to see your set-up some time. I'll let you know...thanks.

I may get the trigger job, but I want to at least see how it is stock for a while and let cash build up.

Can you translate that? Maybe your just making a joke. Is it a bad thing? I can get 143000, so I was thinking somewhat lower, but it doesn't have to be all the way down to 125000.

Oh, and someone...anyone. I'd still like to know what size primer goes in the brass from the link in the OP? Call the manufacture?

Thanks all,
Doug

FWIW: The Rem casings use a large pistol. I just loaded a bag of them a couple weeks ago.

--Dan

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

JavaDan said:
FWIW: The Rem casings use a large pistol. I just loaded a bag of them a couple weeks ago.

--Dan

U da MAN!

pop-gunner · Apr 22, 2011

There are a couple companies out there using small pistol primers in their cases but Federal with their non-toxic line is the only one coming to mind. Most companies are using LP primers. Yes I shoot at AAF&G sometimes and also at Sanners Lake. If you are shooting the MD state championship next weekend I'll be working down there and know Dan Burwell will be there. That would be the place to give Dan your pistol as it would save you half of the shipping to and from his shop. Either that or go shoot one of his USPSA matches and hand it to him there in PA.
As for my slow-motion comment if you were to try to make a power factor that low with 230gr bullets and IF the gun would cycle at all you would be waiting for the slide to move and it would be running super slowly. Picture a Bang, Chunk,Clunk every time you pull the trigger.

Bikebreath · Apr 22, 2011

Me? At the MD championship? :lol2:

Might catch him in PA.

Thanks for the info, pop-gunner.

actionpistolshooter · Apr 22, 2011

45 ACP at a "low" Minor PF (~125-130) is a complex issue. I can be done but it is not simple because you are running components out of their normal parameters:

1. Gun: spring rates need to be adjusted or the gun operates slow and may not be reliable. If not adjustable then you may get to the point you out run the gun with your trigger finger.

2. Powder: at the lower pressures some powders may not burn completely or consistently and can be dirty/gritty and deliver big variations in velocity,

I've seen it done but it may require a fair amount of experimentation. However even at a "high" Minor PF (~145-155) many of the problems go away and you can still get a lower felt recoil then with 9mm at about same PF.

There is some debate if the bigger 45 cal holes will help or hurt your score, a miss on a NT can become a hit as easy as a miss on shoot tgt can become a hit or higher score. :rolleyes:

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