AR10, Who has one?

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  • dmable44

    Active Member
    Jul 4, 2018
    117
    I’m in the midst of building a DPMS patterned AR10 with the initial goal of 1 MOA to sub MOA at 1000yds. The lower is complete and furnished and I’m at the point where the next step is a barrel, BCG and to finish out the upper.

    But, I’m considering ditching the whole 1000yd precision idea and getting a bolt gun for that later down the road.

    I’m not sure how I would finish out the AR10 if I do go that route; so who has one, what do you use it for, what’s your setup and what are yours thoughts?
     

    OSOK1776

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2011
    496
    Glen Burnie
    I’m in the midst of building a DPMS patterned AR10 with the initial goal of 1 MOA to sub MOA at 1000yds. The lower is complete and furnished and I’m at the point where the next step is a barrel, BCG and to finish out the upper.

    But, I’m considering ditching the whole 1000yd precision idea and getting a bolt gun for that later down the road.

    I’m not sure how I would finish out the AR10 if I do go that route; so who has one, what do you use it for, what’s your setup and what are yours thoughts?


    Honestly man, a consistant sub MOA ar10 is a pipe dream. I have multiple Gas 308's and none can do sub Moa consistantly even with hand loads and perfect conditions, however my $600 savage 10 in 6.5 does it all day long

    • Daniel Defense DD5V1
    • Aero Precision AR10 matched upper / lower w/ 20" krieger barrel and timney trigger
    • POF 308 AR10 w/ 20" match barrel and POF trigger
    • SCAR17H w/ Giessele Super Scar Trigger
    • Fulton Armory Titan AR10

    None of those are consistent sub MOA at 500 let alone at 1k and they all have good glass (Vortex Viper PST 6-24 FFP scopes)

    All that said, they are a blast to shoot and are so much faster on the follow up shots, however now you have to full length size your brass which causes brass to die faster and you shoot a lot more rounds which costs more money =)
     

    dmable44

    Active Member
    Jul 4, 2018
    117
    Honestly man, a consistant sub MOA ar10 is a pipe dream. I have multiple Gas 308's and none can do sub Moa consistantly even with hand loads and perfect conditions, however my $600 savage 10 in 6.5 does it all day long

    • Daniel Defense DD5V1
    • Aero Precision AR10 matched upper / lower w/ 20" krieger barrel and timney trigger
    • POF 308 AR10 w/ 20" match barrel and POF trigger
    • SCAR17H w/ Giessele Super Scar Trigger
    • Fulton Armory Titan AR10

    None of those are consistent sub MOA at 500 let alone at 1k and they all have good glass (Vortex Viper PST 6-24 FFP scopes)

    All that said, they are a blast to shoot and are so much faster on the follow up shots, however now you have to full length size your brass which causes brass to die faster and you shoot a lot more rounds which costs more money =)

    That’s basically the gist of what I’ve been reading. A .308 gas gun that can shoot sub MOA consistently is much much harder to achieve and can be super costly.

    I would like to stick with .308/7.62 though.

    That being said, how would you finish the build out and what would you use it for?
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    I would buy one from one of the high end makers who have an accuracy guarantee if you want that level of performance. Not sure any will state that level of accuracy though and if they do expect to pay.
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    One of the main reasons 6.5, etc. are better out to 1000 yards is not build quality itself, its that cartridges like 6.5 are faster out of the barrel so the bullet experiences less wind drift, stays supersonic longer, etc. 308 from an 18" barrel will go subsonic around 900-950 yards ish, depending on load. 6.5 has some other ballistic advantages besides speed. But it also depends on your use. For game at 1000 yards, you like want something bigger than either.
     

    BALBZ

    bad ass LBZ that is
    Apr 6, 2013
    155
    Eastern Shore MD
    I plan to try the same thing. My build is almost complete. I plan to test my ability as well as the ability of the gun. If I posess the ability to make constant hits at 1000 with the current .308 AR10, I plan to build a 6.5 creed bolt gun in the future. If I don't have the ability to make it in the long range game I will have one bad ass AR10 to play with.

    The build
    Mega MATEN matched set
    Giessele national match trigger
    The full JP upper treatment (20" supermatch heavy barrel, adjustable gas block, Matched high pressure bolt) sent the upper to JP for them to set barrel with there super secret heat treatment method.
    JP LOMOS bolt carrier
    JP silent capture buffer spring
    JP 34mm flat top scope mount
    Soon to be out of ATF jail Silencerco harvester
    And finally if they go on sale black Friday Vortex Razor HD gen II 4.5-27x54 MRAD scope

    I have my reloading bench ready to go. I cant wait to develop a load and stretch the legs on this build. Hopefully I can perform as well as this gun should.
     

    OSOK1776

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2011
    496
    Glen Burnie
    Just to be clear... any ar10 or AR-15 will make hits at 1k. The goal is to increase the consistency at which it hits. That said be prepared to be mortified when a stock savage or Ruger in 6.5 out shoots your $5,000 gas gun.

    If I’m looking to shoot precision I have bolts in 6.5CM, 300WM and 338LM that are great. But they are boring as hell to shoot because they hit all the time.

    My gas 308’s and 6.5s however are fun to shoot but I wouldn’t consider them precision guns even though they are built amazingly well with the highest grade parts.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    OSOK1776

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2011
    496
    Glen Burnie
    You also have to remember... people post their best groups NOT their average group.

    People also shoot at 100 and call it 500 to show how amazing they or their gun is.

    I call bs on anyone that says they can do 1/2 moa on a gas gun “on average”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    moose&squirrel

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 25, 2018
    253
    I have a Smith & Wesson AR 10 "Sport," the one with the 16" barrel. Other than barrel length, it appears to be identical to S&W's more expensive model with the 18" barrel. I've only been able to shoot it at 100 to 200 yards, because I don't have a shooting spot available with a longer range. I've only used pricey Federal Gold Medal Sierra Matchking Ammo, 168 grain. I'm still learning how to aim and hold the rifle properly, but I am getting good groups at the distances I have available to me. Damned thing is LOUD, LOUD, LOUD. I put in foam earplugs before I slip on the muffs. I like the ambi controls on the rifle.
     

    dmable44

    Active Member
    Jul 4, 2018
    117
    I think the new route I’m going to take is build it to be very accurate from 100-600yds and build a bolt gun later on down the road for the 1000yds.

    Now I’m thinking 18” barrel.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,151
    Sun City West, AZ
    I have several...an Armalite AR-10 which is more or less and entry level model of the type. It carries well, is reliable and with GI ball ammo it's more than accurate enough for the job. I also have a Colt LE901-SE...better than the Armalite...more accurate, better balance but it costs twice as much and while it's damn nice, isn't twice the rifle. The last one I have is an Armalite AR-10(T)...their high end target grade model. It's exceptionally accurate and reliable but heavy and made for bench or prone shooting. I bought it quite some time ago so it uses modified M14 magazines which are expensive to come by compared to Pmags the newer guns use.

    AR-10(T) and AR-10...
    IMG_7841.jpg


    Colt LE-901SE...
    IMG_7842.jpg
     

    clandestine

    AR-15 Savant
    Oct 13, 2008
    37,031
    Elkton, MD
    Gas Guns can be MOA and consistently, but are inferior to a bolt gun if you want to chase accuracy. It takes more than the sum of parts to make an accurate gas gun. Proper assembly is very much one of them.

    Things that cause accuracy issues in an AR:

    Picking an External Gas Piston AR over D.I. (Internal Piston) AR
    Short Headspace
    Un-Trued Upper Receiver Face
    Inconsistent Lug Contact
    Excessive Extractor Tension
    Short Throat
    Pack Triggers and Lightened Aftermarket Springs
    Anti Rotation Pins/Non Floating Pins
    Set Screw or Pinned Gas Blocks/FSB's
    Threaded Muzzle
    Concentric Muzzle Threading
    Overtourqued Muzzle Devices
    Undertourqued Muzzle Devices
    Muzzle Device Selection (Includes Suppressors)
    Bad Feed Ramp and Mouth Geometry
    Clicker of Rough Feed Ramps
    Overgassing
    Non Bedded or Thermal Fit of Upper/Barrel
    Wrong Gas Block Material
    Silent Buffer Systems/Improper Installation
    Loose Carrier Fit/Deflection
    Non Floated Handguard
    Loose Upper/Lower Fit
    Magazine Selection
    FPRP Drag
    Insufficient FP Protrusion
    Low Quality Optics/Mounts
    Thin-Walled Uppers or Side Chargers
    Not seasoning Fasteners or torquing them properly
     

    DavidA

    The Master of Disaster
    Dec 6, 2013
    371
    Annapolis
    Here is the way I read it I have two AR 10’s both 308 win. four AR 15’s, one in 5.56 three in 223 Wilde, one in 6.5 Grendel. I have 1 rem factory 700 270 win, this is a 24” SPS SS spotter barrel. Just can’t seem to get it below 1 moa, It has a houge stock with aluminum v block. There just appears to be to much whip in the barrels. Really a 1.5 moa hunting rifle. I have 1 rem 700 in 338 win mag Remage 26” barrel , one rem 700 270 win 26” barrel Remage 1 -8 twist to fire the 170 Berger. Both of the Remage 700’s are Sendero profiles on Magpul 700 hunter stocks, both sub Moa. Both shoot sub moa on hand loads. All remingtons have mark x stock triggers. Polished up a bit.

    My 233 Wilde chamberings are an 18 bull and 20” bull black hole weaponry barrels both sub moa with 69gr SMK’s on top of 8208 can’t. My 16” 5.56 shoots this around 1.25 to 1.5 moa.

    My Grendel (264 LBC) is with a 20” BHW semi bull, Odin works BCG. Sub moa Shoots the center out of a target at 100 yds. Build is not over top. Odin works BCG with AGL ACT trigger group. SSA upper, Anderson lower

    My at 10’s are both 20” BHW barrels one bull the other semi bull. The bull will shoot sub moa clover leafs at 100 with MEN 7.62 x 51 M80 ball. The semi bull 1 moa. Builds are nothing over the top. Aero Precision M5E build combos with one toolcraft and one aero Precision BCG. DPMS rifle tubes and standard buffers. Both have inexpensive muzzle brakes.

    Here is my take for AR’s most important part of the puzzle is the barrel. It is the heart of what makes it happen. You want 1 moa or less you will need a good barrel, in either a bull or semi bull configuration to mitigate barrel harmonics, some decent parts and a good trigger. I just love the ALG ACT trigger and its $69 go figure Any hoot AR 15’s is 300 yds engagement. AR 15 in 264 LBC target engagement to 600 yds. AR 10 in 308 win good to 700 yds unless you get a 24” barrel maybe 800 yds. If you go 260 Rem or 6.5 Creed you could stretch that to say 900 yds maybe even 1,000. Beyond 1,000 yds just go to a bolt guns.

    Can you make a AR10 yes and within reasonable cost considerations. You are just limited as to what you can do punching paper beyond 800 to 1,000 yds. For medium game if you say 1,000 ft lbs of energy minimum the 308 is limited to 550-600 yds. 260 rem or Creedmoor 700-750 yds Standard. 270 win 150 gr Berger 800 to 850 yds. Custom 270 win 1-8 170 gr Berger EOL bullets 1125 yds. 338 win With a Hornady 285 ELD M 1,500 yds. I am building a 284 win mag 28” barrel which should give 1,000 ft lbs to 1,250 yds

    Only problem is accuracy cost you assets in other ways. Mainly weight. my AR 10 that is a sub moa rifle weighs 14.5 to 15 lbs with scope. The Rem 700 with Sendero profile barrels about the same. They are allI dope rifles but you had better have a gun bearer. Because weight = pain and the higher the elevation the more the pain. But elevation buys yardage as well. All previous ballistics are based upon sea level. For someone in Leadville Colorado where 10,000 ft is where you start,if you hunt at 11,000 ft. The same 308 that delivered 1,000 ft lbs at 600 yds will now give you an effective range of 800 yds’.

    Just depends what you want to accomplish. Yes AR 10’s can be vary accurate. An AR 10 in 408 win with a 20” barrel can make 1,000 yds at sea level. Barely. But if you looking for precision just buy a decent bolt action put a 26” barrel on it, a bedded receiver stock a decent scope and away you go to 1,000 yds. Me I just think of the AR 10 as a 600 yd rifle max. Which is why I do not have a 6.5 Creed or 260 rem. I have that all covered with bolt guns and at the point you add heavy profile barrels in play there just is no real advantage. I have thought about a Creedmoor for an AR 10 build. In the end I just can not justify it. As if justification has something to do with building another rifle


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    OSOK1776

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2011
    496
    Glen Burnie
    I also look at this whole thread like this... if your going to shoot 1k yrds then eventually you’ll want to shoot 1mile. Build the mile gun to show 1k :)

    308 or 6.5 at 1m is dumb.


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    OSOK1776

    Active Member
    Oct 26, 2011
    496
    Glen Burnie
    If you are going to shoot 1mile, you will eventually want to try 2 miles. Just build the 2 mile gun from the start.



    Nah lol

    To be honest the last few range trips I have only brought my 22’s.

    I have everything from .223 to 338LM covered in precision guns but I am on a precision 22 kick these days lol 100yd and 200yd on 22lr plskthx


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    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Out of curiosity for those in the know, is AR308/AR10 particularly harder to get MOA or sub-MOA than the AR-15 platform? If so, is it an issue of less standardizing?

    I am a few parts away from having my AR-10 built. I’d like sub-MOA, but I’d be happy enough for something that can squeeze 1-1.1MOA out of the right loading. Going to use it mostly for hunting and punching paper or steel mostly 300yds or less.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Out of curiosity for those in the know, is AR308/AR10 particularly harder to get MOA or sub-MOA than the AR-15 platform? If so, is it an issue of less standardizing?

    I am a few parts away from having my AR-10 built. I’d like sub-MOA, but I’d be happy enough for something that can squeeze 1-1.1MOA out of the right loading. Going to use it mostly for hunting and punching paper or steel mostly 300yds or less.
    I think there is probably some truth to the idea that accuracy issues with large frame ARs can be traced to the lack of parts compatibility akin to AR15s. That said I also think it can be attributed to a lack of QC from manufacturers and know how when they are assembled. Building an AR in any size properly requires a lot more work than is commonly thought by many gunsmiths and amateurs alike.

    Personally I would go with a black hole weaponry or criterion barrel if I were working on a project that I was hoping to turn into a consistently sub MOA gas rifle just because I have good luck with them. Much higher end than that and I'd probably just start looking for a reputable gunsmith or builder and have them take care of it. I might luck out and manage to build something that accurate on my own with something mid tier, but once really expensive components get in the mix I'm going to have a non-amateur build it. Their fees can be high, but they are cheaper than irreparably jacking up an $800+ barrel or $500+ receiver set.

    Okay let's be honest I'd probably bring Clandestine in on it from the start, and once he gets his FFL I'd probably just have him build me something if he were offering that service. Somehow I doubt the prospect of building $3k-$5k designer rifles is what gets him out of bed in the morning though.
     

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