Gun Transport in MD

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

Of course a hotel reservation is not aplicable to a day trip..

The desire to prosecute will be tembered by the fear of creating the perfect layup to federal court..

Having said that, don't think they will not try..but that's why we must all hang together least we all hang separately..

Join a group. Any group. Help raise funds...do something..

And join us 10 Feb 2015.. 2a Tuesday.

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

true, but MD has no allowance for out of state travel at all. So FOPA might be better than nothing at all.

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
true, but MD has no allowance for out of state travel at all. So FOPA might be better than nothing at all.

The intent of congress is clear. I like the idea of hotel reservations. Or a range badge out of state.. whatever you got..

But in the end we need to fix this shit.

JamesH · Jan 20, 2015

So, if I understand the MD rules correctly, my enclosed case (with or without a lock) need not be in the trunk. It could even be within reach of the driver. (Maybe?)

If I am driving to VA, and I have a valid CCW permit in VA, do I need to travel under FOPA or can I take Maryland law to the border, then strap on and continue under VA law?

I'm trying to determine if I need to get out of the car at a rest area to start carrying legally after arriving in VA from MD. Or can I stop, open my enclosed case, put my pistol in my holster, and keep on?

swinokur · Jan 20, 2015

You can travel according to MD law, but travel isn't a legal exception to the MD statute. I travel per FOPA, pull over in VA, then arm yourself.

IANAL

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

swinokur said:
You can travel according to MD law, but travel isn't a legal exception to the MD statute. I travel per FOPA, pull over in VA, then arm yourself.

IANAL

Its that cluster f..ked...

You can't move from one house to another .

You can't move out of state..

FOPA. Its your only legal method of general transport .

IANAL.

JamesH · Jan 20, 2015

Brooklyn said:
You can't move from one house to another .

Do you mean from your house to a friend's house or between multiple houses you own? Because one of the allowed cases is "between bona fide residences of the person".

You could also take your gun(s) to a friend's house as part of a public or private exhibition:

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

If you are planning such an exhibition, I'd suggest having an email exchange with the exhibition host (your friend) confirming the date, time, and location of the "private exhibition" in case you need it to defend yourself.

Do I need to say IANAL? It would just be easier if the actual lawyers identified themselves.

Brooklyn · Jan 20, 2015

JamesH said:
Do you mean from your house to a friend's house or between multiple houses you own? Because one of the allowed cases is "between bona fide residences of the person".

You could also take your gun(s) to a friend's house as part of a public or private exhibition:

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

If you are planning such an exhibition, I'd suggest having an email exchange with the exhibition host (your friend) confirming the date, time, and location of the "private exhibition" in case you need it to defend yourself.

Do I need to say IANAL? It would just be easier if the actual lawyers identified themselves.

I would not try the bona fide gun collection bit.. as for the other..bona fide means you need to prove it.

It was my understanding that moving between residences from one to another was not covered...but I may be confusing it with nj where it is covered but not really ..

If so then I am wrong and very glad to hear it.

JamesH · Jan 21, 2015

Brooklyn said:
I would not try the bona fide gun collection bit.. as for the other..bona fide means you need to prove it.

It was my understanding that moving between residences from one to another was not covered...but I may be confusing it with nj where it is covered but not really ..

If so then I am wrong and very glad to hear it.

"Bone fide" means "good faith", not "you have to prove it". Having Designated Collector status should be sufficient, but it should not be necessary. After all, MSP agreed with your sworn (notarized) statement that you are a Collector. Likewise, a C&R FFL should be sufficient, as a federally-recognized Collector.

For the full legal definition (as in, this is exactly what the judge will consult in his chambers), see here:
http://thelawdictionary.org/bona-fide/

Not legally binding in Maryland, but compare a Massachusetts definition:
A "bona fide collector of firearms", for the purpose of issuance of a machine gun license, shall be defined as an individual who acquires firearms for such lawful purposes as historical significance, display, research, lecturing, demonstration, test firing, investment or other like purposes.

For the "public or private exhibition" exemption to apply, you must also be attending an "exhibition". Since a "private exhibition" is clearly allowed in the statute, exhibiting your collection in a private setting (eg, the home of the exhibition's host) must have been contemplated and allowed. Private events need not be publicly advertised (for obvious reasons), but an exhibition tends to be a planned event. Hence, my suggestion to document the particulars of the planned "private exhibition" in email. You then have a paper trail proving a good faith, private exhibition of your firearms collection.

Brooklyn · Jan 21, 2015

JamesH said:
"Bone fide" means "good faith", not "you have to prove it". Having Designated Collector status should be sufficient, but it should not be necessary. After all, MSP agreed with your sworn (notarized) statement that you are a Collector. Likewise, a C&R FFL should be sufficient, as a federally-recognized Collector.

For the full legal definition (as in, this is exactly what the judge will consult in his chambers), see here:
http://thelawdictionary.org/bona-fide/

Not legally binding in Maryland, but compare a Massachusetts definition:
A "bona fide collector of firearms", for the purpose of issuance of a machine gun license, shall be defined as an individual who acquires firearms for such lawful purposes as historical significance, display, research, lecturing, demonstration, test firing, investment or other like purposes.

For the "public or private exhibition" exemption to apply, you must also be attending an "exhibition". Since a "private exhibition" is clearly allowed in the statute, exhibiting your collection in a private setting (eg, the home of the exhibition's host) must have been contemplated and allowed. Private events need not be publicly advertised (for obvious reasons), but an exhibition tends to be a planned event. Hence, my suggestion to document the particulars of the planned "private exhibition" in email. You then have a paper trail proving a good faith, private exhibition of your firearms collection.

I think you would be better off not establishing a paper trail to prove good faith when you show your friend the same gun every week for a year

impeaching good faith is not hard..

Now as a DC I do collect...that's provable..

but getting the court an MD court to buy that any given exhibition is good faith is a strech. FOPA only works interstate.. this is a tough issue..

You are right on residences providing any lease is in force on both at the same time.. if you change residences ..

Thankfully there is not much case law..

I like to meet friends out of state.. hell the faster I get out of state the happier I am..

We need stronger FOPA.

Pinecone · Jan 21, 2015

JamesH said:
"Bone fide" means "good faith", not "you have to prove it". Having Designated Collector status should be sufficient, but it should not be necessary. After all, MSP agreed with your sworn (notarized) statement that you are a Collector. Likewise, a C&R FFL should be sufficient, as a federally-recognized Collector.

For the full legal definition (as in, this is exactly what the judge will consult in his chambers), see here:
http://thelawdictionary.org/bona-fide/

Not legally binding in Maryland, but compare a Massachusetts definition:
A "bona fide collector of firearms", for the purpose of issuance of a machine gun license, shall be defined as an individual who acquires firearms for such lawful purposes as historical significance, display, research, lecturing, demonstration, test firing, investment or other like purposes.

For the "public or private exhibition" exemption to apply, you must also be attending an "exhibition". Since a "private exhibition" is clearly allowed in the statute, exhibiting your collection in a private setting (eg, the home of the exhibition's host) must have been contemplated and allowed. Private events need not be publicly advertised (for obvious reasons), but an exhibition tends to be a planned event. Hence, my suggestion to document the particulars of the planned "private exhibition" in email. You then have a paper trail proving a good faith, private exhibition of your firearms collection.

So you think that having a DC and owning ONE pistol will stand up to the test of a bone fide collector?

Good luck with that.

mxskater25 · Jul 18, 2017

Sorry to bump an old bump An old thread. I live in Maryland. Going to PA I have a FL CCW. I'll have the gun in its original case locked and the ammo in my bag. If I get pulled over do I have a duty to inform? If they ask where I'm heading to I'm going to a shooting event in PA

dblas · Jul 18, 2017

mxskater25 said:
Sorry to bump an old bump An old thread. I live in Maryland. Going to PA I have a FL CCW. I'll have the gun in its original case locked and the ammo in my bag. If I get pulled over do I have a duty to inform? If they ask where I'm heading to I'm going to a shooting event in PA

Duty to inform generally concerns concealed carry and having the firearm on your person. With that said, MD has no duty to notify in any circumstance. If they happen to see your gun case, they might ask, at which point you can tell them your going out of state.

swinokur · Jul 18, 2017

Also, your FL CCW IS NOT recognized in PA.

just an FYI

gpfan · Jul 18, 2017

swinokur said:
Also, your FL CCW IS NOT recognized in PA.

just an FYI

PA reciprocity with FL depends on whether the CCW in FL is Resident or Non-Resident.

Resident = reciprocity
Non-Resident = don't even bother mentioning you have one just like MD.

Reference: https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

If you own property in FL and live in MD, folks can actually get a "Florida Resident CCW" even though they spend most of the time in another state. All you need is your Address and Tax Bill (on-line).

Reference: Personal experience

gpfan · Jul 18, 2017

swinokur said:
the poster said he lived in MD, therefore not recognized. I knew SC allowed property owners to supply a tax bill. Never heard FL allowed that. Please provide a cite.

Yes, I live in MD, too and have a MD driver's license and HQL.

There are places for 2 addresses on the application.

"Residence Address" which would be the FL address
"Mailing Address" which would be the MD address.

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Licensing/Concealed-Weapon-License/How-to-Apply-for-or-Renew-a-Concealed-Weapon-License

When I applied in person, I actually had to go to an office IN the Tax Collector building where they process the CCW - in and out in 15mins... literally. DD214 now exempts from training requirements.

gpfan · Jul 18, 2017

swinokur said:
I don't believe FL would accept that, being your mailing address is outside FL. I believe that is for people who live in FL But get their mail at another FL address.

They might question your mailing address being outside FL, indicating you are not a resident. i have never heard of anyone doing this.I have never heard of FL allowing what you say.

i'd like more info.

ok... You can call BS if you want. I did this in-person and asked the question and know what I was told and how they had me fill out the form. When it comes in (prob in a week or 2) if it comes back as "Non-Resident" I'll repost corrected info. Otherwise end of discussion... Sorry, OP... Didn't mean to hijack this thread.

They do call it the "Gunshine State" for a reason.

swinokur · Jul 18, 2017

I didn't call BS. I said I'd like more info did I not? I have never heard of a state doing what you say except SC, who has a link to the tax assessor form. If you pay taxes in FL, that would suffice,

it's just not posted like the SC exception is.
.

mxskater25 · Jul 18, 2017

Sorry to create controversy. My Florida ccw is honored in PA because I'm a resident of Florida im just stationed here in MD. I have a physical Maryland address but my residency is still Florida

swinokur · Jul 18, 2017

thanks for the clarification. Your resident permit is good in PA

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