Corrosive powder?

Neutron · Feb 8, 2021

Is Hodgdon's 4831 a very corrosive powder? I have an old can sitting on a shelf and some other items sitting close by are covered in rust. Some brass cases and a copper plated bullet sitting close turned green. It's very old powder given to me by a neighbor. Probably left over from the 60's or 70's. The bottom of the can is also covered in rust. There is a can of H380, SR7625, and IMR3031. Some rust on the IMR3031 can as well. The 3031 is the only one I have any use for. Pitch the rest? Pitch it all?

Squaregrouper · Feb 8, 2021

NeutronBlu said:
Is Hodgdon's 4831 a very corrosive powder? I have an old can sitting on a shelf and some other items sitting close by are covered in rust. Some brass cases and a copper plated bullet sitting close turned green. It's very old powder given to me by a neighbor. Probably left over from the 60's or 70's. The bottom of the can is also covered in rust. There is a can of H380, SR7625, and IMR3031. Some rust on the IMR3031 can as well. The 3031 is the only one I have any use for. Pitch the rest? Pitch it all?

I am unaware of corrosive powders. There are lots of corrosive primers out there, but I am not aware of powders being corrosive.
(I am a reloader, but not a reloading guru)

cstone · Feb 8, 2021

I always thought it was the primer compound that was corrosive. Smokeless powder shouldn't be corrosive. Black powder may be corrosive, but I don't have a lot of experience with non-smokeless powders.

Brickman301 · Feb 8, 2021

squaregrouper said:
I am unaware of corrosive powders. There are lots of corrosive primers out there, but I am not aware of powders being corrosive.
(I am a reloader, but not a reloading guru)

That’s how I understand it too.
The only powder I know that is corrosive is black powder and it’s substitutes.

HiStandards · Feb 8, 2021

It isn't the powder that is corrosive. When people talk about corrosive ammunition, it is old primers containing mercury and chlorates. Black powder fouling attracts moisture and can also cause rust.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 8, 2021

In its original form , smokeless powder isn't corrosive to any noticeable degree . If it breaking down , aka gone bad , no telling .

But if stored under vaguely suitable conditions , those powders are way too young to be breaking down from age .

Guidelines of spotting deteriorated are published by SAAMI , and repeated and expanded by dozens of sources .

Short of all those powders gone bad from terrible storage conditions , the best bet is external humidity affecting the cans.

As noted above the effects of residues from shooting are almost always the results of the primers not the powders .

Even Black Powder residue itself isn't very corrosive , it's the hydroscopic nature of it draw water out of the atmosphere that causes the well known rust issues .

Boats · Feb 8, 2021

like others have said, powder isn't corrosive, primers are.

even black powder isn't corrosive, it just attracts moisture.

sounds like poor storage

Neutron · Feb 9, 2021

The powder is on a shelf in my very dry basement. I've never had any moisture problems and there is a lot of machinery down there that would show signs of rusting by now if there was a moisture problem. I've lived in this house for 45 years and never had a damp basement. There were a couple of steel parts to a Lee press sitting on that shelf that I cleaned up before I took the picture and they had a pretty good coat of rust on them. Very strange.

JimB · Feb 9, 2021

Can I put my barrel in your basement for some rust bluing?

Cochise · Feb 9, 2021

it sounds like that can of powder is breaking down for whatever reason. Does it smell different when you open it? The 7625 is a great shotgun powder and works for handguns too

John from MD · Feb 9, 2021

When a nitro based powder breaks down, the nitric acid separates and forms a red dust. In this condition, the powder is essentially unusable and is corrosive to brass. If you smell it, it will have an acrid smell to it.

magnumpi · Feb 9, 2021

Are you sure you didn't have a leak of some sort? In your last pic there is a water stain running down the pegboard right where the 4831 was sitting. It would only take a small amount of water on that shelf to cause that rust.

lazarus · Feb 9, 2021

magnumpi said:
Are you sure you didn't have a leak of some sort? In your last pic there is a water stain running down the pegboard right where the 4831 was sitting. It would only take a small amount of water on that shelf to cause that rust.

That was my observation also.

Define really dry basement. What is the actual relative humidity. And in each season.

My basement is 34% relative humidity right this second. If I don't run dehumidifiers it'll hit about 65% in the summer time (which I wouldn't call terrible, but it is high. I run a pair of dehumidifiers to get it down under 55%).

My limited experience with old metal cans like that is they aren't stainless steel. Relatively high carbon steel, which is going to rust if you look at it wrong. I don't have any old powder cans, but similar 1940s-1960s vintage metal cans for a variety of other products I don't have a single one that hasn't developed at least a small amount of rust.

dist1646 · Feb 9, 2021

Try running a dehumidifier for a couple hours and see how much accumulates. You might be surprised.

Pinecone · Feb 9, 2021

John from MD said:
When a nitro based powder breaks down, the nitric acid separates and forms a red dust. In this condition, the powder is essentially unusable and is corrosive to brass. If you smell it, it will have an acrid smell to it.

FYI nitric acid is corrosive to ANY metal.

Pinecone · Feb 9, 2021

Sounds like the powder has gone bad and broken down.

The byproducts of breaking down are corrosive.

It probably smells acidic.

bpm32 · Feb 9, 2021

Pinecone said:
Sounds like the powder has gone bad and broken down.

The byproducts of breaking down are corrosive.

It probably smells acidic.

This. It would be a good idea to get rid of the powder since the NOXes it’s forming are toxic as hell. Might want to open it outside as well. The cans would still be salvageable for display.

That’s the problem with nitrate esters. Once the stabilizer (usually something like diphenylamine) goes bad, degradation is autocatalytic.

JamesDong · Feb 9, 2021

If REALLY in doubt use it for fertilizer. I have some very old powders that I got years ago from only God knows where but I still use it and it still makes uniform rounds. No misfires or problems at all.

John from MD · Feb 9, 2021

I have powders from the sixties but they have been kept in a climate controlled environment so they will last a long time. Heat probably affects smokeless powder the worst.

lazarus · Feb 9, 2021

JamesDong said:
If REALLY in doubt use it for fertilizer. I have some very old powders that I got years ago from only God knows where but I still use it and it still makes uniform rounds. No misfires or problems at all.

Downside is for food products, some of the stabilizers aren’t things I’d probably want food plants metabolizing that.

Corrosive powder?

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