HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

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  • Mako

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 6, 2016
    136
    ES of MD
    I apologize if this is a repeat of a previous post. There was a lot of action on this in the last few days. You can blame it on the newb "Junior Member." I just discovered NRA has a great tool to respond to the Maryland legislation actions relative to firearms at: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20180316/maryland-multiple-gun-control-bills-on-the-move. You can modify their canned email and then it will be automatically sent to the appropriate legislators. Obviously, the more they hear on the right side of the issues, they are more likely to be swayed.

    Thank you.
     

    Stagstalker

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2017
    159
    The cesspool of MD

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    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon

    I love how when politicians don't like something being pointed out it becomes "misinformation." While it's good those mentioned are looking at this with a somewhat critical eye finally, most of the changes mentioned are of little help. Changing the standard to clear and convincing from preponderance is only a slight move towards making abuse of these more difficult. And still allows for anyone with a grudge and a willingness to lie (it gets tiresome repeating that) to take an order out. As for increasing the penalties for those who lie, it reminds me of Double Secret Probation in Animal House. Means little in the real world. The penalties for perjury are already significant, but when it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt because it is just one person's word against another's (as most of these will be), penalties become irrelevant.

    The "any other interested person" clause needs to go. It's no more simple than that.
     

    44man

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 19, 2013
    10,129
    southern md
    I love how when politicians don't like something being pointed out it becomes "misinformation." While it's good those mentioned are looking at this with a somewhat critical eye finally, most of the changes mentioned are of little help. Changing the standard to clear and convincing from preponderance is only a slight move towards making abuse of these more difficult. And still allows for anyone with a grudge and a willingness to lie (it gets tiresome repeating that) to take an order out. As for increasing the penalties for those who lie, it reminds me of Double Secret Probation in Animal House. Means little in the real world. The penalties for perjury are already significant, but when it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt because it is just one person's word against another's (as most of these will be), penalties become irrelevant.

    The "any other interested person" clause needs to go. It's no more simple than that.

    And I heard again last evening that “ the judge won’t issue a search warrant when they come to search your house for gun so I can feel safe when they come to take my guns”

    I asked if there’s no search warrant how can they search my house for my guns? I got uh uh uh uh uh well uh uh uh.......

    Do our reps think we are complete and utter morons???? Or can they not think for themselves???
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    7,063
    Anne Arundel County
    Even with their recommended changes, there's still a significant problem with the bill. Stronger, specific criminal charges for false complaints aren't going to make a difference. Crim charges require prosecution by the state to a beyond reasonable doubt standard. That'll never happen in a he said/she said environment, even if the prosecutor is sympathetic to the victim of a false claim. What the bill needs is civil damages defined, including reimbursement of attorney fees, for false claims, with the same preponderance of evidence standard that the law uses for determining if guns need to be taken in the first place. It also needs to penalize those who fail to return seized firearms to the lawful owner in a reasonable (i.e. a day or two) timeframe.

    I support not allowing convicted violent criminals and adjudicated dangerous, mentally ill people to possess firearms. But before anyone loses any enmumerated constitutional right, there needs to be true due process with a high standard of evidence, and an opportunity to confront the accusation and challenge evidence in front of an impartial court. HB1302 as currently written lacks any of that.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    These bills continue to be written in a way that punishes gun owners.

    They never address the core problem, they never address criminal behavior, and they never address those who would file false claims.

    All of that is tertiary to the Grabbers.

    Year after year, decade after decade, their primary focus is and has been to harm gun owners on a very personal level.

    And our new-aged court system allows for it.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    These bills continue to be written in a way that punishes gun owners.

    They never address the core problem, they never address criminal behavior, and they never address those who would file false claims.

    All of that is tertiary to the Grabbers.

    Year after year, decade after decade, their primary focus is and has been to harm gun owners on a very personal level.

    And our new-aged court system allows for it.

    Because that would affect their constituents! Have you seen McFadden and Conway defend their criminal citizens? It's sickening. I've seen it with my own eyes and it is rather scary.
     

    fred55

    Senior
    Aug 24, 2016
    1,772
    Spotsylvania Co. VA
    IANAL however, I have witnessed perjury and it can be un-prosecuted. All that needs to be done is to repeat the same lie every time you are under oath. It's only perjury if your story changes while under oath. I saw this when my father's will was contested. Fred55
     
    Mar 3, 2014
    4
    I'm REALLY NEW HERE, but, it does my heart good to see the response from all of you ,36 pages, that's great. They are doing the same thing in the Pacific Northwest, plus, ''they'' have just shown what they are going to try to pull off when it comes to a ''assault'' weapons ban. And, if you think they will stop at ''just a assault'' weapons ban, your not thinking correctly. Its just the first step in gun confiscation. And, the only one's they are really stopping from owning guns are the honest people who respect, use, and do not abuse their rights to own a firearm. Oregon is just about on par with california when it comes to gun control. The only thing that is out of control in oregon is the politicians. Don't think for a second that confiscation is not the focus, because it is.
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    And I heard again last evening that “ the judge won’t issue a search warrant when they come to search your house for gun so I can feel safe when they come to take my guns”

    I asked if there’s no search warrant how can they search my house for my guns? I got uh uh uh uh uh well uh uh uh.......

    Do our reps think we are complete and utter morons???? Or can they not think for themselves???

    And note there is a provision in the bill for police to get a search warrant if they have probable cause to believe you still have any guns.

    Which, as an aside, opens up a whole new can of worms since the MSP registry does not update when a person disposes of a regulated firearm. Especially if it went out of state and wasn't re-registered here it is difficult to prove you no longer have it. I would hate to see people's houses getting hit with warrants because MGUN says they still own a pistol they sold on gunbroker five years ago.
     

    Not_an_outlaw

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 26, 2013
    4,679
    Prince Frederick, MD
    And note there is a provision in the bill for police to get a search warrant if they have probable cause to believe you still have any guns.

    Which, as an aside, opens up a whole new can of worms since the MSP registry does not update when a person disposes of a regulated firearm. Especially if it went out of state and wasn't re-registered here it is difficult to prove you no longer have it. I would hate to see people's houses getting hit with warrants because MGUN says they still own a pistol they sold on gunbroker five years ago.

    I was thinking the same thing. Are they going to compare your turn-ins to the MSP database and get a warrant for the difference with the missing firearms being probable cause. I'm thinking offsite storage may be an option.
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    And note there is a provision in the bill for police to get a search warrant if they have probable cause to believe you still have any guns.

    Which, as an aside, opens up a whole new can of worms since the MSP registry does not update when a person disposes of a regulated firearm. Especially if it went out of state and wasn't re-registered here it is difficult to prove you no longer have it. I would hate to see people's houses getting hit with warrants because MGUN says they still own a pistol they sold on gunbroker five years ago.

    I am one of those who has sold regulated firearms to out of state buyers in the past, and I worry about exactly that happening. "Well, our system says he owns this many, and he only turned in *that* many, so that's probable cause to search his home because he's hiding them somewhere."
     

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