Ok, so MGA has been advertising their Mk46/Mk48 on Sturm lately. I had not heard of it before so went off doing a bunch of research. In a nutshell its a SAW that uses a HK trigger pack. The earlier versions uses a modified pack, but the latest version uses a bone stock HK pack. This has obvious implications if one has an HK sear. Obviously no one would buy one as a semi-auto only anymore now that a real FN semi-auto SAW can be had.
www.machinegunarmory.com
The question I have is: "Is that legal?" As a semi-auto sure but the ATF has frowned upon putting brand X sear in brand Y gun before. MGA says "can be used as an H&K Host Gun with a Registered Sear or Registered Trigger pack (where allowed by law.)" but they won't clarify where its allowed by law
From my web search it seems the prior versions that used a custom long sear trip and hammer weren't allowed to use a transferable HK pack. Also see the example of FNC sear in SCAR = illegal (and they are even the same brand!) But the ATF has approved things like the Sabre upper on a mac receiver. So building something new can get approved.
So I wanted clarification, called, and left a msg. Then wrote an email. About 15min later someone calls me back. Turns out its John who claims to be the CEO(!). Some notes I scribbled during our 15min conversation that I though I'd leave here for posterity:
* There is no ATF letter saying its approved. He says there is no such thing. ATF only writes letters saying things are not approved. (But I brought up the AA/Sabre and he didn't have an answer.) He says they are just a HK upper like a Michaels Machine 21/23E (I had mentioned them in the contact email I wrote. But a MM21E/23E is an exact copy of an HK firearm not a FN one.) The "sig brace" had an ATF approval letter when it came out.
* Been in business since 2008. Orig SAWs were $22k. Said all gun ranges in Vegas & Texas are using theirs. ( as those all surely are FFL07s w/ postie sears so it doesn't make a difference.)
* Sells as a semi only. You have to buy the full auto kit - will ship with but not installed. Takes a different bolt/slide and trigger housing (for ambi & burst packs.) He didn't recall exact price off the top of his head since he wasn't a sales guy but seemed to think it was "$1500-1600"
* says converting from Mk46(5.56x45) to Mk48(7.62x51) takes 2min. Less time for the other calibers. For the Mk48 requires a bolt, bbl, and feedtray/top cover swap. He says its actually easier than the FN version since theirs is designed to be both from the get-go.
* The difference in the civilian version is thicker receiver rails (to prevent an unmodified open bolt from being used) and the trigger pack hole size & location is different (so you can't attach a SAW open bolt trigger pack.) The other parts almost all swap. He said they make mil-spec parts for the military and other countries. Their barrels are a more modern nitrided vs FNs chrome lining but will interchange.
* no discount for buying Mk46+48 parts at the same time. There is a qty discount. Say 3 or more will be 15%+ off.
* Up to gen 4 design. They took some of the gen3 stuff off the website a couple months ago. 4 stuff is ready to go and they just filed a youtube vid about all of it - not published yet.
Price from the website is:
$7850 Mk46
$1600 auto kit
=$9500 for 5.56 only
+$6500 Mk48 conversion kit
= $16k for 5.56 & 7.62x51
The is me marking the huge red flags that went off in my head talking to him. Personally I think this thing is still on seriously shaky ground if using a transferable sear w/o a letter. Maybe I should get someone to write the ATF and ask
Thoughts? Anyone ever seen one in the flesh?
www.machinegunarmory.com
The question I have is: "Is that legal?" As a semi-auto sure but the ATF has frowned upon putting brand X sear in brand Y gun before. MGA says "can be used as an H&K Host Gun with a Registered Sear or Registered Trigger pack (where allowed by law.)" but they won't clarify where its allowed by law
From my web search it seems the prior versions that used a custom long sear trip and hammer weren't allowed to use a transferable HK pack. Also see the example of FNC sear in SCAR = illegal (and they are even the same brand!) But the ATF has approved things like the Sabre upper on a mac receiver. So building something new can get approved.So I wanted clarification, called, and left a msg. Then wrote an email. About 15min later someone calls me back. Turns out its John who claims to be the CEO(!). Some notes I scribbled during our 15min conversation that I though I'd leave here for posterity:
* There is no ATF letter saying its approved. He says there is no such thing. ATF only writes letters saying things are not approved.
(But I brought up the AA/Sabre and he didn't have an answer.) He says they are just a HK upper like a Michaels Machine 21/23E (I had mentioned them in the contact email I wrote. But a MM21E/23E is an exact copy of an HK firearm not a FN one.) The "sig brace" had an ATF approval letter when it came out.* Been in business since 2008. Orig SAWs were $22k. Said all gun ranges in Vegas & Texas are using theirs. (
as those all surely are FFL07s w/ postie sears so it doesn't make a difference.)* Sells as a semi only. You have to buy the full auto kit - will ship with but not installed. Takes a different bolt/slide and trigger housing (for ambi & burst packs.) He didn't recall exact price off the top of his head since he wasn't a sales guy but seemed to think it was "$1500-1600"
* says converting from Mk46(5.56x45) to Mk48(7.62x51) takes 2min. Less time for the other calibers. For the Mk48 requires a bolt, bbl, and feedtray/top cover swap. He says its actually easier than the FN version since theirs is designed to be both from the get-go.
* The difference in the civilian version is thicker receiver rails (to prevent an unmodified open bolt from being used) and the trigger pack hole size & location is different (so you can't attach a SAW open bolt trigger pack.) The other parts almost all swap. He said they make mil-spec parts for the military and other countries. Their barrels are a more modern nitrided vs FNs chrome lining but will interchange.
* no discount for buying Mk46+48 parts at the same time. There is a qty discount. Say 3 or more will be 15%+ off.
* Up to gen 4 design. They took some of the gen3 stuff off the website a couple months ago. 4 stuff is ready to go and they just filed a youtube vid about all of it - not published yet.
Price from the website is:
$7850 Mk46
$1600 auto kit
=$9500 for 5.56 only
+$6500 Mk48 conversion kit
= $16k for 5.56 & 7.62x51
The
is me marking the huge red flags that went off in my head talking to him. Personally I think this thing is still on seriously shaky ground if using a transferable sear w/o a letter. Maybe I should get someone to write the ATF and ask Thoughts? Anyone ever seen one in the flesh?
