Accuracy Level To Aspire To

Robmyaing · Aug 2, 2017

I just started shooting about seven months ago. Please let me know what you think, level of accuracy an average shooter like me should reasonably expect to attain - Hit a Target (Size ?) consistently from what Distance? with a semi automatic 9mm pistol - after 1 year of weekly visits to the range - 50 to 100 rounds per visit and about 1 hour of dry fire practice at home. I saw this on the Internet and would like your thoughts on reasonableness of the goals outlined. Thanks for all your input.

Level 1 All 5 shots hit a 3 X 5 index card at 3 Yards

Level 2 All 5 shots hit a 3 X 5 index card at 5 Yards

Level 3 All 5 shots hit a Paper Plate at 7 Yards

Level 4 All 5 shots hit a Paper Plate at 10 Yards

Level 5 All 5 shots hit a Paper Plate at 15 Yards

knastera · Aug 2, 2017

Those are decent standards. Don't forget to include things like shooting one handed, off handed, double tap, and natural point of aim. People spend the vast majority of their time shooting two handed, strong side, in their favorite stance. If you plan on being able to defend yourself, you should practice variations too.
I personally shoot B-27 targets. You can substitute the 10 ring for the index card. My personal standard is head shots on a B-27 at 15 to 20 yards, about the same size as a paper plate.

Squaregrouper · Aug 2, 2017

I was trained with Combat Pistol. The concept is that your target is shooting back- so shoot quickly. On a B-27 target, anything in the 8,9,10 or X ring is considered a bullseye.
I would strive to do the Level 4 you posted, at a rate of one round per second. When you get the range safety officer to walk over to check on why you're shooting so fast, but they walk away a few seconds later- you're doing it right.

knastera · Aug 2, 2017

Also, train according to the engagement type you are preparing for. If you only are defending your home, take the longest shot you expect to take and train at 1.5 times that distance. If you are training for carrying, spend more time on natural point of aim, double tapping at close range, and holster draw (if your range allows it, otherwise, practice holster draw with snap caps at home).

Fester60 · Aug 2, 2017

Paper plates are what I usually use for targets when shooting pistols. I use the cheap 9 inch plates and try to keep all my shots on the flat center part (not the outer rim where it starts to curve up). I usually shoot at 7 yards and I shoot fairly quickly.

alucard0822 · Aug 2, 2017

Proficiency with a pistol is about so much more than group size, unless you are looking to shoot bullseye slow fire group size doesn't really matter. The goal is to place all shots on a target of given size as fast as you can for the given distance. Learning to time your shots, to break shots anywhere from the instant you reset the trigger with the slide pointed at a target, all the way up to taking the time to line up the sights and hit a 6" target that is 50+ yards away. If your group is too small, shoot faster, if you are throwing shots wide, slow down or figure out what you are doing wrong, learn to fire as soon as you have enough of a sight picture to work, especially when moving from target to target. I wasted years chasing small groups at public ranges that didn't allow rapid fire. Soon as I started competing, found a private range without overbearing rules, started working with a timer, and using several blank sheets of paper or plates, I learned how fast I could shoot and still hit a target. That improved my skill much faster, including "traditional" accuracy with a bullseye target, although I only use them for occasional testing and tuning guns and handloads.

Melnic · Aug 2, 2017

One thing to consider, The range I go to does not allow anything closer than 25ft (8.3 yards)
I think that is the edge of the bench and most people extend the muzzle past that for shooting by a yard or two.

smokey · Aug 2, 2017

Melnic said:
One thing to consider, The range I go to does not allow anything closer than 25ft (8.3 yards)
I think that is the edge of the bench and most people extend the muzzle past that for shooting by a yard or two.

Good ol' on-target. I basically use slow-fire as a warm-up to get my grip and trigger finger back up to speed and then speed up. Here's an example of a warm-up target. I just bounce from bullseye to bullseye to keep things fresh. In this case, I figured I'd try making a smiley face on the top/right before moving on to speeding up in the middle. From here, I usually just shoot as fast as I can keep the shots on the orange. For challenge, I'll either speed up or bump the target back further to the 15 yd or 25yd lines.

Like alucard said, once you're past the pistol familiarization you get at a range like on-target, you can really speed up the growth curve with competition and ranges that allow movement/shooting from different positions/shooting around stuff/ drawing from the holster.

Training is pretty specific to your end goal though. If you think of "throwing" instead of "shooting" it kind've makes it more clear. Are you throwing a baseball overhand, football, underhand softball fast pitch, bowling... they're all projecting an object away from you to a target, but have dramatically different skill sets. In shooting, are you training for defense, competition(like IDPA or 3-gun), bullseye....etc. They'll all have pretty dramatically different skill sets and considerations to make training more authentic.

Blacksmith101 · Aug 2, 2017

Accuracy Level To Aspire To
The accuracy level depends on what you want to do and varies with what "sport" you are interested in and there are many handgun sports.
Here is a link to get you started, there are others not listed:
https://www.nssf.org/shooting/handgun/

Sundazes · Aug 2, 2017

My friend once asked me why I use 8.5x11 printed out targets. He though it was because I was too cheap to buy "real" targets. I grabbed on of my targets and held it to my chest. He got the idea.
I just enjoy shooting and if I can keep it minute of center mass at various distances, I am happy. Accuracy first, speed second....

j_h_smith · Aug 2, 2017

My suggestion is to NEVER be satisfied with your accuracy. Always strive to do better.

AlanInSilverSpring · Aug 2, 2017

smokey0118 said:
I basically use slow-fire as a warm-up to get my grip and trigger finger back up to speed and then speed up.

Training is pretty specific to your end goal though.

Since I'm not interested in becoming a competitive shooter and basically my end goal is close quarters self defense, where there would be no "warm up", I do exactly the opposite.

My range has a computerized programmable target, so the first thing I do is have the rso set it to go out to 20' sideways and flip towards me at whatever interval they choose (without me knowing). I set my gun on the bench and when the target gets almost all the way out I pick it up, point at the target, and yell "FREEZE, I'VE GOT A GUN". I stay trained on the target until it flips and fire 2 or 3 shots at center mass as fast as I can, and then do it again after it flips back sideways. I also do it with my light is on steady and on strobe. After that I do whatever tickles my fancy at the moment since I'm also a firm believer in the more practice of any sort, the better.

Last trip I was pretty sick and about half way to the range I almost turned around and went home. I thought about it though and decided that since I was trying to train for real life situations I had to continue on since I'm pretty sure a bad guy wouldn't be too concerned about how I was feeling.

Nanook · Aug 2, 2017

Really depends on what your expectations are. A few years back FA18Hooker and I took a bunch of folks, mostly older ladies, from his 'shop' and did a firearms 101/"guns aren't bad" course at one of the 50yd ranges on Ft Meade. Most, if not all, attendees' first time handing firearms. After a few hours most of them were chasing empty soda cans across the bottom of the berm (figure 60-65yds) with .22 pistols. The shooters with dot equipped pistols had more hits on target than the open irons but that was to be expected.

Some of the LEOs that were shooting on the next range wrapped up and a couple were watching and couldn't believe what they were seeing. The secret I told them was easy: "Don't tell 'em how hard it is to shoot a pistol. Use the fundamentals and the bullets will pretty much go where you want them to."

It doesn't really matter what discipline or type of shooting you do, the fundamentals remain the same. Stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger pull, and breathing are all you need to figure out and do, pretty much in that order. Running and gunning is a little more involved than Bullseye in that your body position changes and the breathing may be a little harder to keep under control as it isn't quite so Zen-like.

Most importantly, follow the basic safety rules and have fun. Don't over think it and it'll work out pretty well.

j_h_smith · Aug 2, 2017

AlanInSilverSpring said:
Since I'm not interested in becoming a competitive shooter and basically my end goal is close quarters self defense, where there would be no "warm up", I do exactly the opposite.

My range has a computerized programmable target, so the first thing I do is have the rso set it to go out to 20' sideways and flip towards me at whatever interval they choose (without me knowing). I set my gun on the bench and when the target gets almost all the way out I pick it up, point at the target, and yell "FREEZE, I'VE GOT A GUN". I stay trained on the target until it flips and fire 2 or 3 shots at center mass as fast as I can, and then do it again after it flips back sideways. I also do it with my light is on steady and on strobe. After that I do whatever tickles my fancy at the moment since I'm also a firm believer in the more practice of any sort, the better.

Last trip I was pretty sick and about half way to the range I almost turned around and went home. I thought about it though and decided that since I was trying to train for real life situations I had to continue on since I'm pretty sure a bad guy wouldn't be too concerned about how I was feeling.

The "Freeze, I've got a Gun" thing would have to go. The last thing I would want to do is to announce my presence and position to the bad guy. Secondly, you've exposed yourself if there are more than 2 bad guys. You can practice the way you want, but I'm not broadcasting my position in a defensive situation or worse yet in a home invasion.

YMMV

AlanInSilverSpring · Aug 2, 2017

j_h_smith said:
The "Freeze, I've got a Gun" thing would have to go. The last thing I would want to do is to announce my presence and position to the bad guy. Secondly, you've exposed yourself if there are more than 2 bad guys. You can practice the way you want, but I'm not broadcasting my position in a defensive situation or worse yet in a home invasion.

YMMV

So what would you do instead ? Just turn them into swiss cheese with no warning ?

Unless your goal is to simply take the persons life you MUST announce your presence and let them know you have the ability to take them down. Even police officers, when they enter a house to check for possible intruders they announce over and over again that they're there. Of course they don't have to say they're armed since it's a given.

My goal is to eliminate the threat (make them freeze, run away, whatever, I don't care). I don't think I'd have any trouble pulling the trigger but my goal is NOT to shoot somebody !

From a strictly legal standpoint, I've also been told that if you were to call police, where the call would be being recorded, that giving a loud clear warning will go a long way in helping your defense if you do in fact have to shoot.

Nanook · Aug 2, 2017

AlanInSilverSpring said:
So what would you do instead ? Just turn them into swiss cheese with no warning ?

Unless your goal is to simply take the persons life you MUST announce your presence and let them know you have the ability to take them down. Even police officers, when they enter a house to check for possible intruders they announce over and over again that they're there. Of course they don't have to say they're armed since it's a given.

My goal is to eliminate the threat (make them freeze, run away, whatever, I don't care). I don't think I'd have any trouble pulling the trigger but my goal is NOT to shoot somebody !

From a strictly legal standpoint, I've also been told that if you were to call police, where the call would be being recorded, that giving a loud clear warning will go a long way in helping your defense if you do in fact have to shoot.

The goal is, G-d forbid having to do so, to live to see another day. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat. If they have the means, intent, and opportunity to end you, you are pretty much going to be legally okay if you end them first.

IANAL, YMMV, and the other alphabet soups...

j_h_smith · Aug 2, 2017

AlanInSilverSpring said:
So what would you do instead ? Just turn them into swiss cheese with no warning ?

Unless your goal is to simply take the persons life you MUST announce your presence and let them know you have the ability to take them down. Even police officers, when they enter a house to check for possible intruders they announce over and over again that they're there. Of course they don't have to say they're armed since it's a given.

My goal is to eliminate the threat (make them freeze, run away, whatever, I don't care). I don't think I'd have any trouble pulling the trigger but my goal is NOT to shoot somebody !

From a strictly legal standpoint, I've also been told that if you were to call police, where the call would be being recorded, that giving a loud clear warning will go a long way in helping your defense if you do in fact have to shoot.

Would you please tell me where there's a law that says I have to announce my presence.

Once the bad guy raises his gun anywhere near my direction, he's going to be "Swiss Cheese". This is real life. This isn't TV. It's them or me.

You keep on listening to whoever you're listening to for your legal advice. Do you think you're going to be able to plan your response in every situation? You want to take the time to call 911 and what happens when they tell you not to shoot the bad guy? What do you do then? What does your expert advice you to do? There was another thread where a woman called 911 and asked for permission to shoot the bad guy. Guess what they told her to do? Yes, don't shoot.

You are welcome to practice any way you want, it's up to you.

travistheone · Aug 2, 2017

first- accuracy is nothing without speed- speed is nothing without accuracy.

those goals are good but you should be able to hit them pretty quickly. then your goal is faster. once you are blazing fast, tighten up the target if you want.

to the "freeze ive got a gun" convo- john murphy tells people to ask random and weird questions like "what you have for breakfast?"

if you are shooting a terrorist or known assailant- dont feel a need to announce myself.
"

AlanInSilverSpring · Aug 2, 2017

j_h_smith said:
Would you please tell me where there's a law that says I have to announce my presence.

Once the bad guy raises his gun anywhere near my direction, he's going to be "Swiss Cheese". This is real life. This isn't TV. It's them or me.

You keep on listening to whoever you're listening to for your legal advice. Do you think you're going to be able to plan your response in every situation? You want to take the time to call 911 and what happens when they tell you not to shoot the bad guy? What do you do then? What does your expert advice you to do? There was another thread where a woman called 911 and asked for permission to shoot the bad guy. Guess what they told her to do? Yes, don't shoot.

You are welcome to practice any way you want, it's up to you.

You're completely missing, or ignoring, the point. Of course one can't plan for every situation, but so far you haven't offered a plan for ANY situation besides "once the bad guy raises his gun.......". That's not exactly a "plan" in my book. The whole point is, what do you do BEFORE that happens ?

Here's where I'm coming from..........
It's the middle of the night.
You hear someone in your house.
You quietly roll out of bed and pick up your gun.
You peek around your bedroom door and see someone rummaging through your desk in the next room.

According to you it's not a good idea to announce your presence OR call the police.

So exactly what do you do ? What's the plan ?

j_h_smith · Aug 2, 2017

You live in your world, I'll live in mine.

Accuracy Level To Aspire To

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