With what C&R rifle you often get caught violating with the ranges rules

Piscator said:

Huh, I wonder if they'd call it on an FN49? They have mags but they aren't really removable or meant to be. Feed lips are in the receiver.


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I once brought my Swiss 1889 to the range. The rifle is very long with a huge 12 round magazine. The RSO asked me to remove the mag during the ceasefire, I then challenged him to show me how to do that. he backed off and didn't bother me for the rest of the day. I haven't brought it back to the range since. May be on the Swiss cheese festival day I will bring it out again to help turning some blocks of American cheese into Swiss cheese.

28Shooter said:

Popping the magazines on those older military rifles causes undue and unnecessary wear as they were not really intended to be removed in the first place.

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I couldn't agree with you more!

EKing said:

If the SKS has the stock fixed 10rd magazine, no need to remove or pop it open. If you have altered your SKS to accept the removeable magazine, remove it.





That is AGC policy, one ECI in one chamber of the open cylinder.





SKIP is correct, no need to drop the floorplates. Some shooters do it and that's fine.



Bottom line, if your firearm accepts a detachable magazine, drop it. Not every RSO knows every firearm type and function. When I see something I don't recognize or something that doesn't look right, I'll ask the owner to educate me.

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For double action revolvers, is that the range policy for matches only? I have never done it that way (only an ECI in the barrel) and have never been questioned. Also I can find nothing in the written range rules that say anything about two ECI's for double action revolvers.


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I agree, there is no way the RSO's could possibly know every mechanism of every rifle asking the owner is ideal, we all want Safety and a good time, and there are now owners who aren't more than happy to talk about their toys


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I still want to know why the OP is on probation

If I try hard enough, I can envision a "Final Destination" series of events in which an autoloader could have the bolt release itself, strip out a round that was "hiding" in the magazine, shatter through ECI and end up in battery (or slamfire...who knows, it's definitely a bad situation). Now, while I am a big fan of sci-fi, I just can't wrap my head around this happening with a bolt action. Heck, an Enfield isn't even cocked until the bolt is completely closed and locked. BUT...those are the rules, so I'll be pulling the mag out of my Enfield...from not on, at least. Mine comes out just fine, and I don't mind complying. Now, if they start wanting mags out of Garands or Winchester 1873's, I may be a little unhappy.

A simple solution is just to case it during cease fire.

I wonder how many Ruger American Rifles have been squeaking by without mags removed?

engineerbrian said:

I still want to know why the OP is on probation

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I will make the short story long so everyone can see a clearer picture.

On Monday Dec 19, 2016 (if my memory serve me well), the morning was cold and well under freezing, I was first at the shooting lanes. I always challenge myself on the worst weather days (cold, hot, snow...) because I am not a fair weather shooter really. Days like this people's brains will be affected by the cold and I can hear my voice garbled. After half an hour, the second shooter showed up but at 20 yards apart we did not communicate. After another half hour passed and while I was waiting for my steel gong stop swinging, I decided to go to the clubhouse to renew my membership (main reason I came to the range that day). I did unload my SKS and plugged the chamber before I left the bench.

I failed the renewal mission because no one was there for the process. When I was on my way back to the lane, I recognized the second man. He was my neighbor a couple of weeks before that day and we did exchange some political opinions about the presidential election and we found we were on the same team. After a few more shots and waiting, I decide to drop by his bench to say hello and continue what we left last time. I did not remember how long the time went by because we were too busy laughing. Then the third man shown up at the range with his friend. At that time the RSO saw the range was crowded enough for a formal ceasefire so he called it and went out for his tour of inspection. I was still engaged in the conversation with the second shooter. Technically the ceasefire was not completed yet and the RSO had a good chance to remind me to prepare my weapon for safety because no one left the concrete pad yet. But he chose to go straight to my rifle (like he knew something must be wrong there) and pointed out that I left my loaded magazine in the rifle. I was off guard because no one around, just 2 men at the range and political victory talk distracted me so I forget and left my load SKS unintended. It a major violation so he took my permits and I did not have them back until a month later (it ruined my planned shooting vacation during the holidays.) Before they gave me back the barges, I had to go in front of the Board of Trustees then took the Safety Test online. They also gave me 6 month probation.

It was my fault 100% by the rules and I don't deny it. I just hope they have some understanding of the harsh weather and the empty range conditions and drop the charges...but it did not happen. I learned my lesson and vowed to be more alert at the range but sh#t still happen. Please tread this incident as a warning and take safety at the range more serious. Thanks for asking.

Art3 said:

A simple solution is just to case it during cease fire. .

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I heard an RSO suggested this and I will use it from now on just to save myself from more trouble. I now my last name and my range # are not popular at AGC range.

It's wet out there and I can't go to the range, so I have time for some pictures. I hope that these pictures will entertain everyone. I don't mean to offend any body if you feel so.

Below are the pics of Swiss 1889 with a scary magazine in single load mode and repeater mode (combat tactic at the time. You can find these features on 1903, Krag, Swiss 1889...) Of Course the magazine can be remove (watch You Tube) but it's very difficult. and may damage the mag if we have to do it every 30min. It was designed to be remove monthly for cleaning after a practice session. The Swiss never have to go to war with anybody, only a few volunteers in IDF, French foreign legion and the Pop guards.
Attached Images

Which one looks more intimidating?
Which one looks more assuring?
Which one RSO will ask you to remove during ceasefire?

Why don't they just leave it alone?

Are they equally easy to be removed? If safety is the bottom line why don't we just ban guns that hard to remove the mag/floorplate? They are equally dangerous don't they?

Firearm safety is of paramount importance.

This is the only way to be sure.

iH8DemLibz said:

Firearm safety is of paramount importance.

This is the only way to be sure.

View attachment 210357

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I am with you!

If we practice this safety we would save a lot of ammo at the same time.

28Shooter said:

Regarding double-action revolvers, tell me again why an ECI in the barrel is not the most effective way to indicate the gun is safe?

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Because a ECI is an Empty Chamber Indicator and not a empty barrel indicator.

Erno86 said:

Because a ECI is an Empty Chamber Indicator and not a empty barrel indicator.

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So what? On a revolver, it goes in the barrel. As long as the cylinder is empty at a ceasefire (which it should be) and an ECI in the barrel then the gun is safe.


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Piscator said:

Huh, I wonder if they'd call it on an FN49? They have mags but they aren't really removable or meant to be. Feed lips are in the receiver.


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This is what I would get in trouble for. FN49 looks removable (actually is in the Argie Navy versions). I haven't been to the AGC for years but for about 2 decades there I never removed the magazine on a SMLE or Swiss SR and was never called to carpet for it. Guess things have changed since then.

Threeband said:

Cylinder should be completely removed from that revolver during cease fire.

It would never occur to me to remove the magazine from a Lee Enfield or a K31. Open bolt and chamber flag, combined with no touching should be plenty good enough. Still, the AGC has improved a lot over the years.

Question: Do they expect shooters with tubular magazine .22s to remove their tubular magazines?

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I unscrew the barrel from the receiver.

rbird7282 said:

So what? On a revolver, it goes in the barrel. As long as the cylinder is empty at a ceasefire (which it should be) and an ECI in the barrel then the gun is safe.


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This is a violation. During a club meeting, this very issue was specifically mentioned.

ECI must go in empty chamber and not the barrel.

Erno86 said:

Because a ECI is an Empty Chamber Indicator and not a empty barrel indicator.

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whistlersmother said:

This is a violation. During a club meeting, this very issue was specifically mentioned.

ECI must go in empty chamber and not the barrel.

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I fully understand the it is an "Empty Chamber Indicator" and that to place the ECI in the barrel is a violation of the rules, but as a practical and technical matter, most double action revolvers have between 5 and 10 chambers in their cylinders so should that warrant 5 - 10 flags? The very supposition is ridiculous but no less so than to think an unloaded double action revolver with the cylinder open is not "Safe" with an ECI in the barrel.