Comms - HF

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  • Crazytrain

    Certified Grump
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 8, 2007
    1,641
    Sparks, MD
    FT-900 connected to a dipole in the attic.
    General Class License.
    Technically running now, though I don't use it much.
     

    Keystone70

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    748
    HoCo
    40M is not good for close in contacts at night, it tends to go long. 80M is better and 160M is even better still.


    I agree, though, 160m may be a bit too big for some. I find that 80m at night works well. I was on the hospital net last night on 80m and everyone was coming through well including one from the Philadelphia area. 40m is generally too long for close contact.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    40M is not good for close in contacts at night, it tends to go long. 80M is better and 160M is even better still.

    This.

    80m can use ground wave for close comms.

    But, really, this would be better on a good repeater.

    Although, a couple of times in the past, we did 2m/80m net. Those with HF talked on 80m. Those without talked on CARA repeater. Each listened to the other
     

    Antarctica

    YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 29, 2012
    1,728
    Southern Anne Arundel
    Re: Repeater - specifically why I labeled this thread "Comms - HF"

    Not interested in a 2meter or repeater based comms or net. Those may have a place, but this was specifically targeting regional/local HF.

    Why?

    1) there's tons of 2 meter nets
    2) Those nets don't connect regions, unless they are linked. Links via phone or internet are a point of centralized single point failure. When those fail in times of need, the planned for comms fail.
    3) people have HF, but many don't exercise it, so don't really have it up and running when/if needed. The intent of this was to get those HF operators up and running.
    4) Regional info can give a lot more heads up than just local info.
    5) I don't want this thread to degenerate into 50 people asking how to program their Baofeng.

    Not saying repeater comms don't have place, just that that was not the intent of this thread.

    I'd be glad to start a "Comms-VHF" thread parallel to this. I almost did that when I started this thread.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Any idea if they'll make exemptions on the in-person testing requirements? I've been interested in getting a technical license for awhile, but never got around to it. Not anxious to have to try to figure out where to take a test in-person, supposing it doesn't just get cancelled.

    I do have some halfway decent GMRS handsets and have a vehicle set OTW (only 5w). Of course that is strictly short range stuff. But I mostly wanted something neighborhood range. The handhelds on non-FRS limited broadcast strength I don't have an issue getting about a mile in my neighborhood with lots of trees, some houses and hilly. I figure the vehicle set with its higher gain antenna and double the broadcast power should at least be able to be picked up by the handsets a fair extra distance away and should pick up the handsets a bit further away also (there just due to antenna gain). I figured it if worked out, I'd get a 2nd vehicle set at 5w (midland 105 is the vehicle set). I got a 12v AC-DC adapter so I can use the vehicle set in the house if I wanted to as a base station. Other thought was get a couple of higher end Midland sets in the 40w range, and/or higher gain antennas for the 105(s) or the higher power sets. Understanding obstacles are going to be the largest limiting factor with GMRS more so than Horizon limitations. Then use the 105 on some future ATV if/when I ever get one.

    I'd like, some day, to be able to do VHF/UHF, but I care the most about neighborhood range communications. Something I could give my neighbor. Or stay in touch with my wife around the neighborhood or on my property (4.4 acres isn't GIANT, but it is a bit past shouting range unless things are quiet and the windows are open). Don't want to have to rely on my cell for that stuff.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    Yes, you download the JS8Call software and when you select the band it will try to tune your radio to the usual frequency on that band, if you have cat configured.

    JS8Call also has the ability to create groups where it can store-and-forward messages. So we can have our own group and even send messages offline. I would like to do that for some kind of MDS or preppers group. The messages would have to be short and maybe we could come up with our own abbreviations. Just something where if another MDS'r needed something they could ask and get assistance from the group. Or maybe quick status messages: "ALL GOOD" or "LOW ON AMMO".

    What do you all think?


    I just got installed and up and running in 40m. It certainly does exactly what you said. It’s slow but a true emergency net where communication of basic info was needed across longer distances it would work.

    I’ve seen examples of small
    Mobile HF rigs setup with PC tablets or RaspberryPI’s that look interesting for emergency and portable solutions.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    How much money are we looking at to get into HF these days?

    You still need an additional license to operate HF right?

    Are cheaper alternatives like 10m worth a damn? I heard they were pretty unreliable.
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    How much money are we looking at to get into HF these days?

    It depends. You can get (or could get, don't know if the hoard has discovered they need HF capability yet) relativity cheap HF rigs of 70-80's vintages that won't have the features of today's or such good receivers but they are usable.

    There are some cheaper new transceivers but they are usually limited to one or two bands, low power or CW-only.

    Clubs, SK (Silent Key ie, deceased amateurs) sales are usually places you can find used equipment where you can see it is in operational condition.

    You still need an additional license to operate HF right?

    You get some limited access to a small portion of the bands (mostly CW except for 10M) with a Technician class license. Otherwise, yes, you need a higher ticket to get greater access.

    Band_Chart_Image_for_ARRL_Web.jpg


    Are cheaper alternatives like 10m worth a damn? I heard they were pretty unreliable.

    10m has limited use and has not been very active in this low part of the solar cycle.
     

    OLM-Medic

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 5, 2010
    6,588
    It depends. You can get (or could get, don't know if the hoard has discovered they need HF capability yet) relativity cheap HF rigs of 70-80's vintages that won't have the features of today's or such good receivers but they are usable.

    There are some cheaper new transceivers but they are usually limited to one or two bands, low power or CW-only.

    Clubs, SK (Silent Key ie, deceased amateurs) sales are usually places you can find used equipment where you can see it is in operational condition.



    You get some limited access to a small portion of the bands (mostly CW except for 10M) with a Technician class license. Otherwise, yes, you need a higher ticket to get greater access.

    Band_Chart_Image_for_ARRL_Web.jpg




    10m has limited use and has not been very active in this low part of the solar cycle.

    So if I read this right I can use 80m with a technician?

    Havent used my HAM in years
     

    Keystone70

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 14, 2012
    748
    HoCo
    You need a General license for HF. Yes, you have some CW rights assuming you know CW. 10m is not open very much at this point and not reliable.
    A new rig can be had for maybe $600 at the lowest on sale. A used newer rig for maybe a little less. Don’t forget the antenna. That is very important. For HF communications, propagation is most important followed by antenna and then radio. There is nothing you can buy to get around that. We are at the mercy of sunspots (lack thereof). That being said; we are able to talk to Europe, South America and Africa during these poor conditions at times. Each band has different times of the day that are best.

    160 is dead during the day and comes alive during the dark hours.

    80m has some action during the day but opens up in the dark.

    40m is open most of the time with night being a little better

    20m is the big DX band. It has been most active during the day, but lately has been staying open later in the evenings.

    17m has had some activity during the daytime.

    Above that it is sparse.

    Bottom line is HF takes more work than VHF and above. It is definitely not plug-n-play. But it is worth it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    GOG-MD

    Active Member
    Aug 23, 2017
    366
    AA County
    How many here have HF comms capability?
    (Count=14, 3/18/20)

    Are you up and running (legally)?


    Could you be up and running in a week (legally)?

    I have HF capability at home, only VHF and UHF in the car. Yes, I am licensed (Extra class) and operate legally.

    Could you be up and running in a week? Yes, if you were licensed already. From what I've heard, in-person license exams have been largely cancelled for now due to the coronavirus. There is a provision in the FCC rules to allow for remote exam testing, but is typically meant for people in very remote areas. I haven't heard of any local Exam Coordinators offering that yet. But it's a good time to study up for your test, as others have mentioned here.
     

    Antarctica

    YEEEEEHAWWW!!!!
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 29, 2012
    1,728
    Southern Anne Arundel
    How much money are we looking at to get into HF these days?

    You still need an additional license to operate HF right?

    Are cheaper alternatives like 10m worth a damn? I heard they were pretty unreliable.

    The exam is so easy its not worth not doing it. Going to extra will just make operating simpler as you can use the whole band.

    Lots of good used gear out there, but sometimes the asking price is ridiculous. If I couldn't get on the air with used equipment for under $500, including radio, tuner, and power supply, I'd just buy new.

    I picked up an ICOM 7300 for $800 over the holidays (been running a 706 for 20 or so years). Its a fantastic radio. A long wire tuner (AH4) is under $300. Figure $100-$200 for a power supply. Another $100 for power, ground and antenna wire. And you'll need a tree to throw the wire into.

    Figure $1200-$1300 for all new.
     

    gamer_jim

    Podcaster
    Feb 12, 2008
    13,233
    Hanover, PA
    How much money are we looking at to get into HF these days?

    You still need an additional license to operate HF right?

    Are cheaper alternatives like 10m worth a damn? I heard they were pretty unreliable.

    I built my shack for about $1200 all said and done 2 years ago. It included a Yaesu 450d, antenna, SignaLink, dummy load, cables, power supply, grounding bar and about $50 worth of stuff from Lowes.

    That said, you don't need $1200, you can do it much cheaper. If money is a problem and you want to get into this hobby then start attending your local ham club meetings. Once you show an interest, start studying and even pass your tech I'm sure someone in the club will lend you an hf rig until you can afford one. Or, maybe just go there and tell them you are interested but not sure you want to invest that much money yet.

    The biggest problem you will have is determining where and how you want to operate. Portable? At home? Portable will be a little more expensive and you won't get as good quality than if you had the room at home. If at home then where are you going to put the antenna? You want a nice spot in the house where you can operate day or night without interfering with other family. There's lots of options for HF antennas, even if you live in an HOA restricted area. My goal is to use my rig at home but with relative ease be able to pack it up and go camping with it. My 130' wire antenna I put up in my house in such a way that I could easily take it down, wind it up and take it somewhere.

    The best thing is to get involved with a local group and find a good elmer. They will be able to guide you through your particular situation and ease you into the hobby.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    The challenge is to find a repeater that is in range to everyone.

    CARA covers a LOT of the state. More with a simple virus antenna

    I can hit it with an HT from the Aberdeen area. And I have hit it from the mobile from near Delaware line on I-95, but some hilltopping there.

    And south, down to Quantico.
     

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