Are SBR's legal in MD?

Pinecone · Apr 15, 2021

outrider58 said:
Where does that say short barreled rifle?

There was a time when Md's minimum length for SBRs was 26". That was changed to 29" sometime after 2013 FSA. Was the change an attempt to render SBRs less concealable?

More questions than answers

And if an SBR is a rifle and subject to FSA2013 provisions, why does an AR-15 SBR not have to be HBAR?

jcutonilli · Apr 15, 2021

outrider58 said:
Where does that say short barreled rifle?

There was a time when Md's minimum length for SBRs was 26". That was changed to 29" sometime after 2013 FSA. Was the change an attempt to render SBRs less concealable?

More questions than answers

It is not about words, it is about meaning.

The federal definition of an SBR comes from 18 USC 921 and defines it as follows

(8)The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

The MD definition of a handgun referenced in the COMAR uses the Public Safety Section 5-101 definition, which defines a handgun based on barrel length. Technically you can have an SBR that is not a handgun under the MD definition because you can have a firearm that is less than 26" and a barrel 16" or more. That situation would only apply to certain short cartridge bullpups.

There was no MD minimum length for SBRs (to my knowledge). The 26" requirement comes from the federal definition. The MD minimum rifle length change occurred as part of the 2013 FSA. They introduced the term "copycat weapon" so that the ban would not be limited to to the named list. It so happens that one of the criterion that they selected was OAL. If the change was really meant for SBRs in general then they would have included rimfire and non-semiautomatic SBRs.

jcutonilli · Apr 15, 2021

Pinecone said:
And if an SBR is a rifle and subject to FSA2013 provisions, why does an AR-15 SBR not have to be HBAR?

Whether an SBR is a handgun or a rifle depends on the definitions of the particular section in question. The reason that an AR SBR does not have to be an HBAR has to do with the fact that an AR-15 is considered an "assault long gun" (Criminal Law 4-301) which references a specific list in the public safety article and the specific public safety section referenced defines SBRs as handguns. There certainly is some ambiguity over the situation. If you want more clarity, I would suggest that you contact your delegate and propose language to clarify the situation.

Pinecone · Apr 15, 2021

jcutonilli said:
Whether an SBR is a handgun or a rifle depends on the definitions of the particular section in question. The reason that an AR SBR does not have to be an HBAR has to do with the fact that an AR-15 is considered an "assault long gun" (Criminal Law 4-301) which references a specific list in the public safety article and the specific public safety section referenced defines SBRs as handguns. There certainly is some ambiguity over the situation. If you want more clarity, I would suggest that you contact your delegate and propose language to clarify the situation.

But if an SBR has to conform to the copycat requirements, and it is still an AR-15, why shouldn't it have to be HBAR?

Aren't copycats also assault long guns?

jcutonilli · Apr 15, 2021

Pinecone said:
But if an SBR has to conform to the copycat requirements, and it is still an AR-15, why shouldn't it have to be HBAR?

Aren't copycats also assault long guns?

"Copycat weapon" does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

The "copycat" requirements only come into play if the firearm is not an "assault long gun"

Pinecone · Apr 16, 2021

jcutonilli said:
The "copycat" requirements only come into play if the firearm is not an "assault long gun"

Interesting take.

jcutonilli · Apr 16, 2021

Pinecone said:
Interesting take.

How is that an interesting take? The law (Criminal Law 4-301(h)(2)) literally states that

"Copycat weapon" does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol

Malachi.2.15 · Apr 17, 2021

I've been wondering about my Scorpion Evo. It is the pistol version with the carbine handguard that extends well beyond the end of the barrel. Works great as a suppressor platform. I had already been thinking about SBRing it.

It definitely exceeds 29" if you measure to end of the handguard but not if you measure to the of barrel. Most online "resources" suggest that OAL is measured to the end of the barrel. Obviously, that definition came out at a time when barrels were the longest item on the firearm. My handguard is extremely hard to remove, and the Scorpion would be non-functional when removed (barrel needs to come off). Should the longest non-removable component of the firearm now be considered for OAL?

On the flip side while looking at the evil feature test, does the 29" requirement only kick in when you have two features? The suppressor apparently counts as a flash hider. So if I don't have a folding stock so it isn't a copy cat weapon, does that work?

Pinecone · Apr 17, 2021

jcutonilli said:
How is that an interesting take? The law (Criminal Law 4-301(h)(2)) literally states that

Then in that case, the SBR AR-15 should NOT be limited to 29", since an AR-15 is an assault long gun.

jcutonilli · Apr 17, 2021

Pinecone said:
Then in that case, the SBR AR-15 should NOT be limited to 29", since an AR-15 is an assault long gun.

If the AR-15 qualifies as an "assault long gun" then the OAL does not matter because the possession of said "assault long gun" would be prohibited. See Criminal Law 4-303 for specifics.

Pinecone · Apr 18, 2021

jcutonilli said:
If the AR-15 qualifies as an "assault long gun" then the OAL does not matter because the possession of said "assault long gun" would be prohibited. See Criminal Law 4-303 for specifics.

So a non-HBAR SBR should not be legal.

outrider58 · Apr 18, 2021

Pinecone said:
So a non-HBAR SBR should not be legal.

How did you arrive at that conclusion? An AR 15, in and of itself is not considered an "assault long gun" unless and until...

Under Maryland law, the definition of assault weapon also includes a “copycat weapon” which is defined as: A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following: 1) A folding stock; 2) A grenade or flare launcher; or 3) A flash suppressor; ... Law § 4-301(e)(1).Feb 10, 2021

Pinecone · Apr 18, 2021

outrider58 said:
How did you arrive at that conclusion? An AR 15, in and of itself is not considered an "assault long gun" unless and until...

AR-15 is an enumerated rifle.

And a copy cat is NOT an assault long gun. It IS an assault weapon.

(D) “ASSAULT WEAPON” MEANS:
(1) AN ASSAULT LONG GUN;
(2) AN ASSAULT PISTOL; OR
(3) A COPYCAT WEAPON

(B) “ASSAULT LONG GUN” MEANS ANY ASSAULT WEAPON LISTED
UNDER § 5–101(R)(2) OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ARTICLE.

5-101(r)(2) is the list of banned long guns.

Maryland Code, Public Safety § 5-101

(r) “Regulated firearm” means:

(1) a handgun; or

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:

jcutonilli · Apr 18, 2021

Pinecone said:
So a non-HBAR SBR should not be legal.

I did not say that a non-HBAR SBR should not be legal. You postulated that you had an "assault long gun" and were inquiring as to whether the "copycat weapon" OAL criterion applied. You do not need to worry about the OAL criterion because you have already determined that you were in a banned configuration.

outrider58 said:
How did you arrive at that conclusion? An AR 15, in and of itself is not considered an "assault long gun" unless and until...

An AR-15 is on the "assault long gun" list. It is specifically mentioned as

Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle;

If you have that specific firearm or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured firearm then you have an "assault long gun"

Exactly what constitutes the specific firearm or their copies is not defined. The MSP has released some guidance on the subject but it does not address all subjects. The FAQ guidance listed on the MSP website indicates that

[A] lower receiver of a banned assault long gun purchased after 10/1/2013 may be built—provided there is compliance with federal and other state laws—only into a handgun, a short barreled rifle that has an overall length of 29 inches or greater, or if the lower receiver is an AR15 platform, into a heavy barrel model.

The section of law that defines the "assault long gun" list has a definition of a handgun that includes SBRs. One can conclude that a handgun is not a rifle so an SBR is not considered an "assault long gun" because it is not a rifle under that section of law.

The "copycat weapon" provisions are found in a different section of law that does not define SBRs as handguns. Since SBRs are technically still rifles in the general sense, the "copycat weapon" criteria would apply restricting the OAL to 29" or greater (semiautomatic centerfire firearms). The evil feature "copycat weapon" list would also apply to semiautomatic centerfire SBRs for the same reason.

outrider58 · Apr 18, 2021

Forgive me. I was referring to Md compliant(heavy barreled) AR 15s or AR 15s purchased before 1 Oct 20013 or the lowers there of.

I thought that was understood. I should have been clear on that point.

There has been a lot of postulation in this circular discussion.

outrider58 · Apr 18, 2021

jcutonilli said:
The "copycat weapon" provisions are found in a different section of law that does not define SBRs as handguns. Since SBRs are technically still rifles in the general sense, the "copycat weapon" criteria would apply restricting the OAL to 29" or greater (semiautomatic centerfire firearms). The evil feature "copycat weapon" list would also apply to semiautomatic centerfire SBRs for the same reason.

...and that is the crux of the discussion.

In my mind, if it isn't specifically enumerated in the law, it isn't in the law.

I have nothing to go on that other than the fact that there was no guidance offered on that point. Not to us. Not to the ATFE.

jcutonilli · Apr 18, 2021

outrider58 said:
...and that is the crux of the discussion.

In my mind, if it isn't specifically enumerated in the law, it isn't in the law.

I have nothing to go on that other than the fact that there was no guidance offered on that point. Not to us. Not to the ATFE.

IT IS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED IN THE LAW. You don't want to understand it.

(1) "Copycat weapon" means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;
(ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
(iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
(iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
(v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
(vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(2) "Copycat weapon" does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

A short-barreled rifle is a rifle. That is why they are referred to as a rifle.

Pinecone · Apr 18, 2021

jcutonilli said:
IT IS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED IN THE LAW. You don't want to understand it.

A short-barreled rifle is a rifle. That is why they are referred to as a rifle.

Except it is an AR-15, so so it is an assault long gun. And the copy cat provisions do not apply to assault long guns.

They are separate categories in the law.

jcutonilli · Apr 18, 2021

Pinecone said:
Except it is an AR-15, so so it is an assault long gun. And the copy cat provisions do not apply to assault long guns.

They are separate categories in the law.

Not all AR-15s are "assault long guns". The "assault long gun" list is found in Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 1. This PARTICULAR subtitle defines the term "handgun", which includes SBRs.

The "copycat weapon" is defined in a DIFFERENT subtitle (Criminal Law Title 4 Subtitle 3). This DIFFERENT subtitle does not define the term "handgun" so we fall back to SBRs being considered rifles.

DIFFERENT subtitles, DIFFERENT definitions.

outrider58 · Apr 18, 2021

jcutonilli said:
IT IS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED IN THE LAW. You don't want to understand it.

A short-barreled rifle is a rifle. That is why they are referred to as a rifle.

An SBR is an SBR. It carries its own provisions. The F'ing state forgot about SBRs when they crapped out FSA 2013.

Are SBR's legal in MD?

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