Down the rabbit hole of C&R...

Ponder_MD · Mar 25, 2021

I got whacked with a pretty good tax bill last night when I filed my taxes. This was unexpected.

Meanwhile, I've stumbled onto some Carcano cavalry carbines at reasonable prices and I want one. I know they're not "great" rifles but they are interesting and I'm Italian. I like the odd and unusual.

Too many rifles also equals too many calibers of ammo to keep up with. This is a bad time to be trying to stockpile a wide range of calibers. I'm also still on the hook for an M1 from the CMP. I think my order will process in 2-4 weeks. Hard to tell.

Supply of these carbines is limited. Thoughts?

bigmancrisler · Mar 25, 2021

Ponder_MD said:
I got whacked with a pretty good tax bill last night when I filed my taxes. This was unexpected.

Meanwhile, I've stumbled onto some Carcano cavalry carbines at reasonable prices and I want one. I know they're not "great" rifles but they are interesting and I'm Italian. I like the odd and unusual.

Too many rifles also equals too many calibers of ammo to keep up with. This is a bad time to be trying to stockpile a wide range of calibers. I'm also still on the hook for an M1 from the CMP. I think my order will process in 2-4 weeks. Hard to tell.

Supply of these carbines is limited. Thoughts?

I think they’re fun little guns, but ammo is almost unobtanium right now which sucks. I would get one just to have another.

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Ponder_MD · Mar 25, 2021

Is it unobtanium or is it just stupidly expensive? There's a difference. I haven't looked.

I have no desire to stockpile thousands of rounds for the Carcano, just a couple-few hundred to have fun with. If they can't be had at all, I'm not sure what the point of owning the Carano is.
I'm reasonably stocked with M2 ball and 7.62x54r for my other nugs.

Melnic · Mar 25, 2021

Carcano rifles are the cheapest milsurp it seems right now. At guns hows for $200. They are the new Mosin it seems.
However MANY of the bores of these are pretty bad so unlike the Mosins of the day, these will not shoot as well. Lots of these Carcanos, the sights shoot REALLY high unless you adjust your sight picture to unlike what many expect to see.

When Ammoseek says nothing in stock, its hard to find.
Even Carcano dies are not easy to get. I'm actually using a Swiss die to neck size only for my Carcano. It worked but I"m not reloading any more, I"ll wait it out until the dies come back into stock at a normal price.

You can sell, but your not going to get much for it unless what you have is in a better condition or special.

I'd be inclined to just hold onto it for later.

BTW, old guy to young guy. Save $ for the future. Don't live paycheck to paycheck. Grandma always told me that. "save your money"

I did not always do that but I always tried to work hard to earn more $ later.

C&R does not seem to get cheaper over time in general, value goes up. There is a flood of Carcanos on the market right now. In 5 years, maybe not.
There are LOTS of guns going for $300 -$500 now that was around $100-$150 only 5 years ago.

Ponder_MD · Mar 25, 2021

Oh, I'm not paycheck to paycheck at all and I have plenty in savings.

You have successfully dissuaded me though. Bad barrels, poor shooting characteristics and unobtanium ammo are enough to turn me off. Thanks.

bigmancrisler · Mar 25, 2021

Ponder_MD said:
Oh, I'm not paycheck to paycheck at all and I have plenty in savings.

You have successfully dissuaded me though. Bad barrels, poor shooting characteristics and unobtanium ammo are enough to turn me off. Thanks.

Ponder, If you want we can go up to AGC and I'll bring both and you can try them if you want. The ammo is just unobtanium right now because for the most part all ammo is, I was able to get about 300 rounds for it for about $200 in like September but I haven't seen any since. Undoubtedly from people buying carcanos and ammo being hard to find to begin with. I would get one because the ammo will come back.
Edit: The barrels on mine at least aren't in bad shape but Melnic is right, they shoot pretty high. From the research I have done, the battle sight is set for 300 yards. On mine I have to aim nearly 2 feet low at 100 yards.

Ponder_MD · Mar 25, 2021

Sure, I'd like to try one but it won't be soon enough before this batch sells out. It's all good, the urge has passed, lol.

Melnic · Mar 25, 2021

I'll add this, If I were going to buy one, I'd likely do it at a gun show where I can see what I'm buying and inspect the bore. Maybe being a cleaning kit or a snake (I typically have a 30 cal snake in my bag that I bring to gun shows along with a lighted archery nock to drop down the bore to look at it if the shot requires action to be closed so I can't use my bore light)

bigmancrisler · Mar 25, 2021

Melnic said:
I'll add this, If I were going to buy one, I'd likely do it at a gun show where I can see what I'm buying and inspect the bore. Maybe being a cleaning kit or a snake (I typically have a 30 cal snake in my bag that I bring to gun shows along with a lighted archery nock to drop down the bore to look at it if the shot requires action to be closed so I can't use my bore light)

I would also agree with Melnic on this too^ mine were just luck of the draw from classic and kind of wished I had gotten to hand pick mine.

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Ponder_MD · Mar 25, 2021

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled with luck of the draw. I even watched a guy do an unboxing on YT from this batch. The barrel was plugged with cosmoline and when he cleaned it out, he said that the barrel was heavily worn.

I promise, I'm cured!

slsc98 · Mar 25, 2021

Ponder_MD said:
. . . Thoughts?

Really quite simple for me; since the mid-80’s (when I was still in MD), my motto has always been:

“If you want it, GET IT!; and, if you got it, KEEP IT!”

bigmancrisler · Mar 25, 2021

Ponder_MD said:
Yeah, I wasn't thrilled with luck of the draw. I even watched a guy do an unboxing on YT from this batch. The barrel was plugged with cosmoline and when he cleaned it out, he said that the barrel was heavily worn.

I promise, I'm cured!

You know were nothing more than a bunch of enablers....

capt14k · Mar 25, 2021

Limex still has 40,000 Carcanos in stock. The first shipments that Century and PW got were 5,000 each, and PW just sold the last of theirs to Axis Arms, not sure about Century. Dealers still have stock of them.

So with only 10,000 being imported 9 months ago and dealers still having stock + 40,000 that can be imported = I would say it is safe to say there will be plenty of chances to buy them in the future.

Especially since you also have the garbage ones I/O is importing from Ethiopia.

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303_enfield · Mar 25, 2021

PPU 6.5 and 7.35 Carcano ammo is still sitting on some shelves. It's not .308 or .223. Now, the stripper/loading clips you need for the rifles have gone up in price. The days of .50 or a buck are over.

PPU is reloadable.

Athelney878 · Mar 25, 2021

I was thinking of getting one too, but after I learned that not only is commercial ammo hard to find, it’s apparently slightly off in size anyway (google carcano .264 .268 and you’ll see what people are saying), which affects accuracy. Even properly sized hand loading materials are virtually non-existant. But, I’m hoping that the flood of these on the US market will eventually cause a manufacturer to make rounds that fit well and fire accurately. If the carcanos are still selling in the $200s in a while, I’ll probably drive down to DK Firearms and hand pick one out myself. At that low a price, it’s not a big loss if good ammo never turns up anyway.

Doco Overboard · Mar 25, 2021

Athelney878 said:
I was thinking of getting one too, but after I learned that not only is commercial ammo hard to find, it’s apparently slightly off in size anyway (google carcano .264 .268 and you’ll see what people are saying), which affects accuracy. Even properly sized hand loading materials are virtually non-existant. But, I’m hoping that the flood of these on the US market will eventually cause a manufacturer to make rounds that fit well and fire accurately. If the carcanos are still selling in the $200s in a while, I’ll probably drive down to DK Firearms and hand pick one out myself. At that low a price, it’s not a big loss if good ammo never turns up anyway.

One reason for bullet fit-milsurp bore dimensions is that not all projectiles were always designed to completely fill the grooves of the rifling entirely. There were two trains of thought between some European and most North American manufacturers and ammunition developers.

The bullet base was often designed to set up or expand to aid in sealing the bore and deliver a certain amount of accuracy while reducing friction and heat transfer to the barrel. Especially in European small arms /machine guns. Some or most all of these weapons were used initially with black powder or cordite until the transition was made to single or double based propellants.
The Americans had a different approach.

In modern made ammo, hardness of the lead bullet core at the projectile base during set up before the bullet starts moving can have a profound effect when testing for accuracy especially when using modern manufactured components with obsolete small arms and component rifled bore dimensions.
By finding a bullet with the right hardness for internal construction at the base, problems with dimensions can often be overcome through careful selection of components or using bullets that react correctly with the design of the barrel.

I like/ appreciate Carcano's too look at, but I'm not sure I'd ever own one unless I stumbled across a really good deal.

gizzard · Mar 26, 2021

Italian Modello 1870/87/15 Vetterli 6.5x52:
i have one of these i would trade off or sell. dark bore, i never fired or cleaned it and would not consider it a shooter. there are many youtube videos on this gun.bolt seems sloppy to me, most of them are like that.

Melnic · Mar 26, 2021

gizzard said:
Italian Modello 1870/87/15 Vetterli 6.5x52:
i have one of these i would trade off or sell. dark bore, i never fired or cleaned it and would not consider it a shooter. there are many youtube videos on this gun.bolt seems sloppy to me, most of them are like that.

These are the ones that went through a conversion process and a barrel liner put in. I can just barely see the barrel liner on the muzzle of mine. There are these reports of people shooting the liners out and some vids of people reducing the loads (pulling commercial bullets and pulling powder out). I don't recommend doing that myself. I think using the right powder like trailboss for a reduced load is far better. Even better is a cast load cause taking a .264 bullet then reducing its load will make it shoot but accuracy will be crap I bet.

Mine was purchased at a "wall hanger" price but I did clean up the bore and one day will shoot it with a load I feel comfortable with. If I can hit a 12" steel target at 100 yards, I'll call it a day.

gizzard · Mar 26, 2021

good luck, i am not a reloader, one of the c&r youtubers loaded some down to fire the gun. same guy who is with Mae and has her shoot most of the guns

bigmancrisler · Mar 26, 2021

gizzard said:
good luck, i am not a reloader, one of the c&r youtubers loaded some down to fire the gun. same guy who is with Mae and has her shoot most of the guns

Othias on C&Rsenal?

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Down the rabbit hole of C&R...

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