How important is brass?

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  • Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    And to echo Uncle Duke and Nannok :

    Clarify in your mind your goal . Do you want an entire seperate hobby of perfectionist brass preparation ? ( And that's ok , if that's what you want & enjoy .) Or do you want a particular accuracy range that is suitable for (xyz) in your rifle, in your hands , for your requirements ?

    If your rifle would reasonably expect MOA-ish accuraçy ( or .75, or whatever), and your shooting skills are comensurate , then do as much prep as you need to do to reach MOA ( or whatever ) , and then declare Victory .
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    And to echo Uncle Duke and Nannok :

    Clarify in your mind your goal . Do you want an entire seperate hobby of perfectionist brass preparation ? ( And that's ok , if that's what you want & enjoy .) Or do you want a particular accuracy range that is suitable for (xyz) in your rifle, in your hands , for your requirements ?

    If your rifle would reasonably expect MOA-ish accuraçy ( or .75, or whatever), and your shooting skills are comensurate , then do as much prep as you need to do to reach MOA ( or whatever ) , and then declare Victory .

    I am not looking to dedicate my life to finding the perfect load. I just want reasonable accuracy the barrel is a Ballistic Advantage Match barrel. They are supposedly sub-MOA. If I can do 1-1.5 MOA I’ll be happy.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Particular example of a AR load development while visiting my friend with private range :

    Can't recall the brand of brass on hand at time.
    " Here , try these Barnes bullets I just recieved from Midway " .
    Look at charts , arbitarily say XX.x gr of 748 looks likely.
    Pick OAL of 2.23 , just for synchronicity with .223

    It shot just under MOA using irons , and I declared Victory .

    Not saying you should load that bullet with that powder , but I recognized it met my needs & expectations, and the load wasn't a limiting factor . If the arbitrary starting point instead turned in 1.5moa , further development would have occurred .
     

    PowPow

    Where's the beef?
    Nov 22, 2012
    4,712
    Howard County
    ... It's like the golfer, if you're familiar with the game. It's one thing to play well enough to consistently break 100. That can happen relatively quickly. You're doing a good bit more to be able to break 90. If you can break 80, you're playing a very different game than most. Should you have the game and the precision to break 70, you're flat out not in Kansas anymore. You're in an entirely different world.

    This idea seems to frame the area of discussion for me as a novice reloader who is still working to "break 100".

    The amount of time you put into the game at each level increases dramatically like any sport. If you don't use it, you lose it. You won't gain what you don't put into it. Continuing with the theme of golf, you have all sorts of special clubs, materials, customizations, and tips to improve your game. Majority of them won't help you unless your game is solid. Some might only help if your game is at a certain level, and some might actually hurt your game. Some equipment can be productive to your game and some can be detrimental.

    I'm wondering what you all think about the topic in the context of the OP using a progressive press? Most folks I know who are meticulous in the preparation of their brass and loads wouldn't use a progressive (manual or auto indexing) for the task as it actually doesn't fit their process. Another question for you all would be: do you think the OP would realize at some point that a single stage or turret would be in his future?

    I also think Sgt. Preston hit the nail on the head.
     

    Nanook

    F-notso-NG-anymore
    Powder quantity consistent. Primers seated nicely. LOA of loaded round. Bullet/case neck consistent crimp tension (even if it is a snug but not static fit for a bolt gun - mag fed and the bullets can wiggle in or out with each preceding shot). If you can do it on a progressive press, go for it.

    If you must be one of the super anal folks who does single stage reloading for a batch at a time, go for it.

    I haven't confirmed with him about the specific ammo for that match but I know FA18hooker runs progressive press. He took the National Rifle Championship several years ago at Camp Perry. "I ain't sayin', I'm just sayin."
     

    Mdphotographer

    Active Member
    Feb 10, 2009
    176
    Frederick MD
    If you want the most out of your brass?

    Measure the volume of each piece and only use those that are the same.

    THIS! I keep seeing people say weigh your brass....WHY? the weight of the case has NOTHING to do with constancy and accuracy. What matters is how much volume is in the case and how much of that volume you use with powder and bullet. A constant amount of powder and constant bullet depth will leave a constant amount of empty space in the case. Weighing a case is no great help because each case can vary in the thickness of its brass in one area or another.

    Now with that said it is probably a waste of time to go to that trouble on an auto-loading rifle as the difference the case volume makes is less then the difference that head spacing irregularities create that are inherent with self loading rifles. Sorry but bolt action rifles just head space more constantly.
     

    robbiek1999

    Member
    Jun 21, 2012
    22
    It isn't just brass

    Teratos, I haven't read all of the responses, so if other people already said this...

    Brass, yes. Type of brass better than others, not usually. Match brass is usually the best for precision, but I can get great results with factory used brass. I can pretty much shoot through same hole at 100 yds benchrest with my Dad's Remington .223 if I am careful with reloads and bench setup. If you aren't buying new brass every time, I would recommend this:
    1. Sort brass by manufacturer and sort into groups. Only use one type of manufacturer at time and make sure same type. Federal LC 5.56 is different than Federal .223.
    2. Prep brass well. Clean outside and inside well (I used wire brush on inside).
    Measure each case, trim to exact length.
    3. Hand weigh powder load for each to exact amount.
    4. Use accurate bullet. Nosler and Hornady usually have repeatable rifle bullets of same weight.
    4. Hand weigh bullets to match per .1 grains. Seperate into groups by .1 grains. If bullet weight is high or low by .2 grains it will shoot a little high or low with same brass & powder.
    5. Measure overall bullet length for each at exact length.

    Could go on and on with bench rest setup...

    - Rob
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Teratos, I haven't read all of the responses, so if other people already said this...

    Brass, yes. Type of brass better than others, not usually. Match brass is usually the best for precision, but I can get great results with factory used brass. I can pretty much shoot through same hole at 100 yds benchrest with my Dad's Remington .223 if I am careful with reloads and bench setup. If you aren't buying new brass every time, I would recommend this:
    1. Sort brass by manufacturer and sort into groups. Only use one type of manufacturer at time and make sure same type. Federal LC 5.56 is different than Federal .223.
    2. Prep brass well. Clean outside and inside well (I used wire brush on inside).
    Measure each case, trim to exact length.
    3. Hand weigh powder load for each to exact amount.
    4. Use accurate bullet. Nosler and Hornady usually have repeatable rifle bullets of same weight.
    4. Hand weigh bullets to match per .1 grains. Seperate into groups by .1 grains. If bullet weight is high or low by .2 grains it will shoot a little high or low with same brass & powder.
    5. Measure overall bullet length for each at exact length.

    Could go on and on with bench rest setup...

    - Rob

    Thanks for the response. Not up to bench rest shooting just yet. Probably my next rifle.

    Don’t know if it’s a no-no for bench rest shooting, but have you considered wet tumbling with SS media? I run the brass through a universal decapper then wet tumble. It cleans inside, outside and the primer pocket.
     

    Rockzilla

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 6, 2010
    4,516
    55.751244 / 37.618423
    Thanks for the response. Not up to bench rest shooting just yet. Probably my next rifle.

    Don’t know if it’s a no-no for bench rest shooting, but have you considered wet tumbling with SS media? I run the brass through a universal decapper then wet tumble. It cleans inside, outside and the primer pocket.

    some do wet tumble some don't, preference I guess. I do wet tumble the brass throw it on a black tarp, let the "sun" dry in the summer, dehydrator any other time, also got the walnut shell dry vibrating case cleaner. did notice some times with wet tumbled cases the expander button is catching more on them, so use tiN coated buttons, or carbide, they are clean for sure...

    -Rock
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Be careful to get all the pins out of the case. There is a guy over on the NM forum, who posted about what happens to a barrel when you miss one.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Thanks for the response. Not up to bench rest shooting just yet. Probably my next rifle.

    Don’t know if it’s a no-no for bench rest shooting, but have you considered wet tumbling with SS media? I run the brass through a universal decapper then wet tumble. It cleans inside, outside and the primer pocket.

    Doc, I clean with lizard bedding in a vibratory tumbler. Run it for 3 hours or so and call it a day. I don't need my brass to be new in box shiny, just cleaned off, so there is not dirt or grit getting into the dies or guns.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Doc, I clean with lizard bedding in a vibratory tumbler. Run it for 3 hours or so and call it a day. I don't need my brass to be new in box shiny, just cleaned off, so there is not dirt or grit getting into the dies or guns.

    I like shiny things.
     

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