Bushmaster HBar - Controlled or not?

DD214 · Jul 13, 2005

I read somewhere that 20" heavy barrel Bushmasters are not considered controlled weapons in MD like the 16" carbines are, and as such are not subject to the waiting period or one per 30 days restriction. Does anyone know if this is truly the case? I want to buy one, but I just purchased a Glock, so I've got about 25 days before I can purchase another controlled weapon again.

[Edit] I forgot to mention how lame that law is. Idiots. [/Edit]

Nonconformist · Jul 13, 2005

I just bought a Bushmaster Dissapator. It has a 16" heavy barrel and I was able to buy it over the counter. I expected to have to deal with the waiting period but I was able take it home that day! I was also considering an HBar and was told that they are also not regulated in Maryland. So you should be good to go. Not a definate answer but I hope this helps.

DD214 · Jul 13, 2005

So what I read was true. Good deal. Thanks for the tip! Now, does anyone know if it is legal for an MD resident to purchase a non-controlled rifle in VA?

Nonconformist · Jul 13, 2005

From what I was told at the last gun show that I attended in Virginia while I was looking to by a Bushmaster, one of the vendors said that if it is considered a long gun and not regulated in Maryland then I could puchase it right there with out a problem. He said if it was regulated in Maryland I would have to do the purchase through a Maryland FFL.

DD214 · Jul 13, 2005

Thanks for the info. Something tells me that I can find a better deal on a Bushmaster in VA, so I'm going to give that a try. They were going for $800 in AZ, but the best I have seen in MD is $950.

novus collectus · Jul 13, 2005

DD214,
Why don't you get deisgnated as a collector by the state of Md so you can buy as many new, regulated firearms as you like in 30 days?

I got mine to avoid a possible misinterpretation of the law when buying C&R pistols (I don't think the 30 day law even applies to FFL's, but I was being safe).

All you have to do is send in the notarised application and you may get the desingation as soon as a few weeks later if not sooner (unless there is a criminal with a similar name as you out there). All they do is a background check, but it is free.

Call the Md State Police Firearms division in Jessup for a copy of the application. I think this number is current- (410)-799-0191

Spot77 · Jul 14, 2005

I bought my 20" Bushmaster HBAR about 18 months ago with no waiting period.

HOWEVER, I think Noncomformist might have been involved in a big boo boo with the cash and carry sale of his 16". I was specifically told that any Bushmaster without the HBAR was a regulated weapon.

Funny though....I can buy an HBAR complete cash and carry, and buy another complete upper with a short barrel in the same night with no waiting period.

No background check at all for an upper.

Nonconformist · Jul 14, 2005

I also bought a Bushmaster Varminter a few months back and had no waiting period. It has something to do with heavy barrels VS light barrels. I had multiple MD FFLs tell me Varminters are not regulated. The shop I bought the Dissapator and Varminter from is reputable and deals with mainly military type firearms. When I was shopping for the Dissapator all the other ARs with 16" barrels (like the M4s) were considered regulated and that was one of the reasons I went with the Dissapator. I also just wanted a chromed line heavy barrel because this gun was intended to just pump lots of rounds through it. I am getting ready to buy a Bushmaster in .308 and was also told from multiple FFLs they are not considered regulated firearms.

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

It is all very confusing. All the MD code says is -
(p) Regulated firearm.- "Regulated firearm" means:
(1) a handgun; or
(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:
...
(xi) Bushmaster semi-auto rifle;
...

OK, but some aren't, so what is the deal?

Nonconformist · Jul 14, 2005

Both Bushmasters I have purchased have heavy barrels. Since Bushmaster, according to their web site has no model called an HBAR, could we then assume HBAR stands for Heavy Barrel and all their heavy barrel models are not regulated??? Just a guess and seems logical but then again we all know Maryland gun laws are not dictated by logic.

When I purchased my first Bushmaster I was also very confused and had to put faith in the FFLs that the proper laws were followed. But I checked with a number of them and they all told me the same thing. They sell many of these types of gun so I assume they would know the laws better then I do. I can't imagine an FFL would risk their license to avoid the waiting period for someone who would probably still purchase the gun even with the wait.

DD214 does the law even mention anything about the HBARs being exempt or anything similar? I have been searching for the actual text of the law but have been unable to locate it. If you have a link to the law I would appreciate it.

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

Nothing about heavy barrel (aka HBar) weapons are mentioned in the MD code that I could find. Maybe you will have better luck. It is rather vague actually. Here is a link to the entire MD code. When the page opens, choose 'Maryland Code' / 'Public Safety' / 'Title 5 - Firearms'. They should just file it under 'Moronic Asshatery'. Anyway, the list of regulated firearms is in the statute text of §5-101
http://198.187.128.12/maryland/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

novus collectus said:
DD214,
Why don't you get deisgnated as a collector by the state of Md so you can buy as many new, regulated firearms as you like in 30 days?

That sounds like a great idea actually. For some reason I was under the impression that a C&R license only allowed for the purchase of antique weapons. I don't know where I came up with that, but apparently it is not the case?

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

Nonconformist,

I should add that I agree with you, that the FFL dealer should be trusted. I'm just curious about what the law actually says, and where the HBar exemption comes from. I'm trying to get a grasp on the gun laws here in MD.

Nonconformist · Jul 14, 2005

I have been trying to find some more information on this and from looking at the law it does reference H-Bar under the listing for Colt. I called Bushmaster and the person I talked to said HBar is not a model but any of the guns they make that has a heavy barrel is considered an HBar which I was told stands for Heavy Barrel Automatic Rilfe. But he was not sure how that pertained to MD law. I will continue to research this and post what I find. I just want to make sure everything is above board being I am getting ready to purchase another Bushie in .308 with a heavy barrel.

DD214 Thanks for the link

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

I didn't catch the H-Bar Colt when I first looked at the code. I wonder if the exemption comes into play since Bushmasters are essentially "copies" of Colt AR-15s. The law does state: "a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon". A heavy barrel Bushmaster is essentially a knockoff of a Colt AR-15 Sporter H-Bar, which is not regulated.

DD214 · Jul 14, 2005

Concerning the earlier discussion about purchasing a non-regulated firearm in VA, I found this in the MD code:

§ 5-204. Purchasers of rifles or shotguns.

(a) "Adjacent state" defined.- In this section, "adjacent state" means Delaware, Pennsylvania, Virginia, or West Virginia.

(b) Resident of this State in adjacent state.- If a resident of this State is eligible to purchase a rifle or shotgun under the laws of an adjacent state, the resident may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed gun dealer in the adjacent state.

Jim Sr · Jul 14, 2005

FYI / Perhaps this will help!

Washington, DC20226

www.atf.gov

July 13, 2005

OPEN LETTER TO FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS IMPORTERS
AND REGISTERED IMPORTERS OF U.S. MUNITIONS IMPORT LIST ARTICLES

The purpose of this open letter is to provide important information to importers concerning the lawful importation of certain frames, receivers and barrels.

Importation of Frames, Receivers or Barrels of Firearms Under Title 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3)

Section 925(d) provides standards for the importation of firearms and ammunition into the United States. In particular, section 925(d)(3) provides that the Attorney General shall authorize a firearm to be imported if it meets several conditions: (1) it is not defined as a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA); (2) it is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes; and (3) it is not a surplus military firearm. However, the subsection further provides that “in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled.”

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that the language of 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-importable firearms to be imported into the United States. Accordingly, ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for “repair or replacement” of existing firearms, will be allowed.

ATF recognizes that importers have, in the past, obtained import permits authorizing the importation of barrels and receivers for non-importable firearms for "repair or replacement" and may have entered into contracts in reliance upon such authorizations. In order to mitigate the impact of ATF’s change in import policy and to allow importers a reasonable period to come into compliance, ATF will forgo enforcement of this import restriction for 60 calendar days and allow importers holding existing permits to continue to import barrels and receivers for a period of 60 calendar days. ATF believes this time period is adequate for importers who have entered into binding contracts for the sale and shipment of such barrels and receivers to complete the process of importing the items into the United States. ATF will advise Customs and Border Protection that in no event should these permits be accepted to release these items for entry into the United States after September 10, 2005.

Importers are reminded that ATF previously approved permits for non-importable barrels and receivers for repair or replacement only, and this restriction was stamped on the face of the permit. Importers who import such components for any purpose other than repair or replacement of existing firearms, e.g., for assembly into new firearms, will be exceeding the scope of the import authorization in violation of law. If ATF determines, through inspection or otherwise, that an importer willfully violates the import provisions of the GCA, the importer's license is subject to revocation pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923(e).

Importers holding approved import permits for non-importable barrels and receivers will receive a letter prior to September 10, 2005, advising them that their permit has been suspended.
This determination affects importers as follows:

<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">IF YOU SUBMIT A NEW APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS ON OR AFTER THE DATE OF THIS LETTER, AND THE PERMIT IS FOR NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS, OR NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list .5in">IF YOU HAVE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN DENIED OR APPROVED BY ATF AND THE PERMIT IS FOR NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS OR NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION.
IF YOU ALREADY HOLD AN APPROVED PERMIT TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS “FOR REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT,” ATF WILL BE SENDING YOU A LETTER EXPLAINING THAT YOUR PERMIT WILL BE SUSPENDED AFTER SEPTEMBER 10, 2005, AND PROVIDING YOU WITH INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR RIGHT TO SUBMIT ARGUMENTS WHY YOUR PERMIT SHOULD NOT BE REVOKED.

Maintaining open lines of communication is vital to the successful future of ATF’s partnership with the import community. The Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch staff is available to answer your questions about the issues addressed in this letter. You may reach us by phone at 202-927-8320 or by fax at 202-927-2697. Additional information regarding this issue will be provided on our Website at www.atf.gov.

Sincerely yours,

Lewis P Raden
Assistant Director
(Enforcement Programs and Services)

novus collectus · Jul 14, 2005

DD214 said:
That sounds like a great idea actually. For some reason I was under the impression that a C&R license only allowed for the purchase of antique weapons. I don't know where I came up with that, but apparently it is not the case?

C&R FFL can buy any handgun or rifle (and some class III) that is on the C&R list. But because the list is a few years old, any rifle or handgun that is more than 50 years old is automatically considered "on the list".
Also, there are some items on the list that are not old. Some items, such as a commemorative pistol (including ones made last month), may have received approval from the ATF (but not on the list yet) and has been classified as C&R and can be bought with C&R FFLs. (I have bought a few pistols with mine and two were fifty years old and one was less than fifty but still on the list)

Antiques....anyone not a criminal can buy one as if it was a toaster. Even short barreled rifles, rifles, sawed-off shotguns, pistols, smoothbore pistols and cannons do not need paperwork if they are antique. They can fire readily availabe, modern ammunition, be semi auto and fully functional and still be an antique. Federally of course. In the state code it is not so clear about antiques and is ironic that it specifically states that all pistols made before 1899 are antiques and not regulated, but does not mention it for rifles and shotguns.
Maybe, because the handguns are mentioned first it applies to all of the following code in that section? But more likely it is because the feds do not have a way to proscess antiques and since the feds already clasify them as antiques the state thought it repetitive. They may have only mentioned handgun antiques because the state also regulates handguns and wanted to specifically mention the exception.

novus collectus · Jul 14, 2005

Jim Sr,
I the Colts and Bushmasters are made in the U.S. and I think that what you posted only applies to foreign receivers and barrels.

MLA

Nonconformist · Jul 15, 2005

Here is something I found on the Maryland AR15 Shooters site

"Buying & Selling an AR-15 in Maryland: Since this is a site devoted to Maryland shooters I'll let you in the legalities in Maryland. In Mayland most AR-15 style rifles are considered 'regulated' weapons (like handguns). You must pay an extra $10 fee, and have the 8 day waiting period before you can pick up your rifle. You are also limited to one (1) Rifle (or Lower Receiver) in a 30 day period. This also prevents you from buying a handgun during this period, since you are limited to 1 'regulated weapon' per 30 day period (either a handgun or so-called 'assault weapon'). Private transfers of AR-15s are PROHIBITED - they must either go through an FFL (max fee he can charge is $20 per law) or you can go to the local State Police barracks and they can do the transfer. There is an EXCEPTION for Colt Sporter H-BAR Rifle; Eagle Arms EA-15 (probably due to differences with internal parts). These are treated just like any other rifle; private transfers are permitted, there is no waiting period, no limit to how many you can buy at a time, nor will it interfere with your purchase of a handgun. State Police consider any rifle with an HBAR barrel (like the Bushmaster) to be identical. Note: the State Police have indicated HBAR Bushmasters are NOT considered 'regulated' - they are treated like the HBAR Colts. As such you are not required to have a 'safety class' to purchase one. Most dealers don't know this and don't bother to check it out (so expect to pay the fee, wait the time, and take the 'class')."

Bushmaster HBar - Controlled or not?

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